thinking about taking pistol and rifle skills classes and wondering if Gunsite is still a good place to go

It’s a solid fighting school with good instructors who have been there and done that. Been going there for 15 years.

Thanks.

If you’re driving to Gunsite, you should swing by the house and and have lunch in Chino.
There is a couple of good mexican places and a couple of good italian restaurants.
There isn’t anything I know of worth a damn in Paulden but I don’t “know” Paulden.

The original and in my opinion stil number one school there is. I have been to a few top tier training classes, and gunsite is easily the best. I do think they price themselves a bit high, but still worth every penny. I currently live about 45 minutes away and get there fairly frequently

Per the other poster, nothing much in Paulden for food, chino valley ( a few miles south) or Prescott ( another 10 miles or so) is where the good food can be found.

If you do attend a class there the catered lunch package is an excellent deal and convenient

If you decide to make it to Gunsite, let us know. See if we can arrange a get together/introduce you some good folks up here.

quote:

Originally posted by MtCowboy:
If you decide to make it to Gunsite, let us know. See if we can arrange a get together/introduce you some good folks up here.

^^ Ditto..MtCowboy and I are right down the road

Absolutely. Thanks for the invite. I’m thinking perhaps October for the pistol class. Good info on the catered meals package. Just need to make sure my gear is up to snuff.

Don't bring your P320 they banned them.

October in Tucson shooting guns sounds like fun

If you are thinking October, pick the 250 pistol class for the first week. You get to stay for the weekend and do the Alumni shoot. Lots of fun, you’ve just practiced for a week and you get to meet a lot of neat people. Steak dinner Friday night before the Saturday match.

Hopefully they have evolved in the ten years but-

10 years ago, they were a tactical tourist destination that was teaching doctrine that was 15 years old then. Much like Thunder Ranch, it’s a tourist destination and not a serious shooting school.

They bill heavily on the BTDT hype, but the thing is that once you’re off a team, out of a squadron, no longer policing, you remain relevant for about a year. And your doctrine becomes that of the team you were on 5-10 years ago. The current doctrine has surpassed what is being taught and your school is failing to evolve.

It’ll be a fun time, but it’s not a serious shooting school like Midsouth, Roger’s, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The current doctrine has surpassed what is being taught and your school is failing to evolve.

Wondering... can you elaborate on the old vs new doctrine.

I'm still on the very old doctrine of 1989 when revolvers were issued. I asked my teacher at the time if 6 shots from a revolver was 'enough' to which he stated "if you pass my class, then yes" which was his way of saying that marksmanship mattered.

At that time it was typically a revolver and 2 speed loaders until agencies moved to the Beretta etc.

But at some point things seemed to go the route of mag dumps at every shooting, and I wonder if that's what you mean by the new doctrine.

I'm probably over simplifying it, which is why I ask

I always looked at schools like Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and the like as schools that impart solid fundamentals, but not necessarily team tactics, etc. Team dynamics can vary considerably depending on your mission, location, resources, etc. and schools with such a broad reach on a very stationary footprint need to appeal to the broadest range of customers possible, and that’s not a bad thing. You’ll get excellent instruction on fundamentals and set yourself up well for more specific stuff as you need it. Just don’t think that you’d be able to just fall in the stack of your local SWAT team because you took a bunch of training at Gunsite, or for that matter any place that teaches to a broad range of clientele, including even police academies that train numerous agencies. Having said all that, I have heard nothing but praise for the facilities and instructional principles taught at Gunsite. I hope to go there myself some day.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:

I'm probably over simplifying it, which is why I ask

To over simplify it even more, I’ll use the slide lock or emergency reload as an example. In the 80s and 90s, doctrine told us to reload the pistol at arms length. The idea was that your focus stayed out in front of you towards the enemy.

Not a single Tier 1 unit, high end competitive shooter, nor modern police academy teaches the arm length reload. It’s slow. As of 10 years ago, it was still taught at Thunder Ranch.

Another example from the slide lock reload is insisting that you “power stroke” the slide closed after the magazine is inserted. Again, slow.

If your last relevant experience was being on an team during that time period, that’s what you would teach as it was all the rage and it was drilled into me when I was a FNG at my first team. Why? My team leader was teaching doctrine from his late 90s time at 1st Force Reconnaissance.

We evolved. And continue to evolve. Using the slide lock lever is always faster.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
If you’re driving to Gunsite, you should swing by the house and and have lunch in Chino.
There is a couple of good mexican places and a couple of good italian restaurants.
There isn’t anything I know of worth a damn in Paulden but I don’t “know” Paulden.

Let me know if you guys are meeting up. I would be happy meet up with you both.

The 150 course (3 days) is a good intro for first-time shooters. The 250 and 350 course, each involving around 1000 rounds over a week, helped polish my amateur-level skills. I think there is a very deliberate emphasis on fundamentals and a proven methodology rather than the latest techniques.

The building-clearing scenario is low-key and realistic. The scenario is you live pretty far away from police coverage and someone has gotten into your house and you have kids in the house so you have to check it out (you can't just retreat out of the building). It is all one person using basic tactics, being safe, and applying disciplined methods; definitely no pretense of being SWAT-level work.

There are probably better choices for competition-level courses, or maybe GUNSITE has a course for just that in their catalog that I didn't see. There are also rifle courses but I didn't see them working. The pistol courses are more like "you are a knowledgeable amateur, but lets clean up some of your bad habits and improve your skills a bit." It is not physically demanding although the summer heat and dryness can be a major factor during that time of year.

I liked the members of my classes (250, 350). Quite a bunch of characters from all over the country, varying skill levels but all serious and trying to get better. I'd go again if I could.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Hopefully they have evolved in the ten years but-

10 years ago, they were a tactical tourist destination that was teaching doctrine that was 15 years old then. Much like Thunder Ranch, it’s a tourist destination and not a serious shooting school.

They bill heavily on the BTDT hype, but the thing is that once you’re off a team, out of a squadron, no longer policing, you remain relevant for about a year. And your doctrine becomes that of the team you were on 5-10 years ago. The current doctrine has surpassed what is being taught and your school is failing to evolve.

It’ll be a fun time, but it’s not a serious shooting school like Midsouth, Roger’s, etc.

I think for the vast majority of students attending these courses is getting to establish some baseline fundamentals while being able to pressure test their skills and knowledge is the main interest. The majority of students have either never attended a multi-day shooting course and, the instruction they've received was very basic, state-required CCW type course where shooting from a holster is still clumsy and crude. Within basic pistol shooting instruction, there's still a low-level debate about where to reload...from workspace or from compressed-ready. ...and then there's the constant harang of, 'keep your gun hot, we shouldn't have to tell you when to reload'

For those LEO and security contractors looking to maintain currency on the latest TTP's, getting into a place like MidSouth or, Roger's would be a dream and the common citizen isn't going to have access whatsoever or, they're seeking the most recent SOF/JSOC retiree who's gotten into the shooting biz.

nhtagmember, I've heard nothing but good things at Gunsite. It may not be the same as when Col Cooper was overseeing things but, I say you can never take enough shooting courses. Gain as much knowledge & build as much skill as possible, file away what isn't working and continue to work on it.

Use places like Gunsite to improve on fundamentals and be introduced to new basic tactics that give you greater insight into your skills (or lack thereof) in an advanced facility that most people never get to train at. Like all such training, take away what works for you and build on it. And for AR/Shotgun users, consider taking courses in their use as well as your handgun.

I’m planning on attending the 250 course in Oct 2026 just as I retire (again). I’ve always wanted to go but haven’t had the time. It’s so close it would be silly for me not to go at least once. Yes, it’s pricey, but based on everything I’ve read or heard about it over the years, the experience is worth it. I’m planning it as a retirement gift to myself.

It's on my to-do list; I've been wanting to attend classes there for years.