quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Seems like I opened up a big ole can-o-worms with my opening question!

Yeah, I answered your question thinking you were inquiring about the current anti semitism in the country, particularly with younger people who are pro-Hamas. Wasn't thinking of the Biblical aspects.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Seems like I opened up a big ole can-o-worms with my opening question! I was hoping for a few well thought out commentaries with verified evidence, but instead it's devolved into this... I don't know what to call it! Yikes!!!

You shined the light on the cockroaches that needed to be exposed. It was a good post, thank you.


.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Seems like I opened up a big ole can-o-worms with my opening question!

Yeah, I answered your question thinking you were inquiring about the current anti semitism in the country, particularly with younger people who are pro-Hamas. Wasn't thinking of the Biblical aspects.

I think your answer from the first page is on the money...

quote:

Of course the hatred of Israel and Jews goes back decades, but IMO, the current hatred in today's society is all about identity politics. The new, young leftists in this country equate Palestine/Hamas to American blacks/hispanics plus illegal aliens, the "protective class" of the oppressed, and view Israel as the evil white oppressors, Imperialists.

These are the people voting for Zohran Mamdani in New York City’s Democratic mayoral primary.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Seems like I opened up a big ole can-o-worms with my opening question!

Yeah, I answered your question thinking you were inquiring about the current anti semitism in the country, particularly with younger people who are pro-Hamas. Wasn't thinking of the Biblical aspects.

Well, I was thinking "the whole enchilada", but current OR Biblical is okay also.

Great... now I want enchiladas!

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Seems like I opened up a big ole can-o-worms with my opening question! I was hoping for a few well thought out commentaries with verified evidence, but instead it's devolved into this... I don't know what to call it! Yikes!!!

One of the better threads in recent years IMHO. Really is. It’s good to know, some people’s true colors, and put it on full display. For that I thank you and tip my Texan hat. I’m Catholic but I can emphatically tell you I’ve heard this anti-Semitic crap my whole life and I’m fucking tired of it. As a child, reading the Holocaust, and learning the whys, the whens, the whoms. To call it enlightenment is putting in mildly. I put it right up there with hating people based on their skin color, or their sex (such as women NOT having their got damn rights). People should be judged by the content of their character. Even though it’s not my faith, I’ve always been happy to break bread with anyone Jewish, and really anyone who believes in a higher power, that is greater than themselves. Let those that hate, eat cake. Let them expose themselves. I believe in Christ with my whole heart. Christ was a Jew. /

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
<<snip>> People should be judged by the content of their character. Even though it’s not my faith, I’ve always been happy to break bread with anyone Jewish, and really anyone who believes in a higher power, that is greater than themselves. Let those that hate, eat cake. Let them expose themselves. I believe in Christ with my whole heart. Christ was a Jew.

One of my best friends before he passed away was a Jew, and was also a P-51D pilot in WW2. For several years our R/C flying club meetings were held at the synagogue that he went to. He was very nice, his people were very nice, and all of them were always ready and willing to help you if needed!

Regarding your comment about different skin color, yeah, I'm the same there. I have had quite a few friends in the past that were "people of color", and all of them were enjoyable to be around. Some were irritating at times, but not more so than my white friends were.

So, this is a hypothesis:

One of the Jewish posters posted “there’s no such thing as an atheist Jew,” more or less.

Which made a great deal of sense.

So, someone who calls themselves an “atheist/agnostic Jew” is someone who defines themselves by genetics/cultural stuff.

Would “bigot” be an appropriate term, for such people?

Maybe people conflate the people with the little hats with that crowd? (Neither I nor spell check could figure out how to write yamika”

I mean, I am PA Dutch, but it’s not a defining part of my personality. I didn’t go looking for a bride in S Central PA only among women who’s family immigrated prior to the Revolution and had last names more than half consonants. .

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
Define cult.

First off, Wikipedia is not exactly a strong reference source, but if you must...

You linked to one "cult" sub-definition of the word "Cult," to the exclusion of all others, rather than the general disambiguation of the word which is located on their site here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_(disambiguation)

If you follow that link, the general definition provided for cult is:
A cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.

I hardly think Judaism, one of the worlds oldest and most followed religions is deviant, nor novel, especially considering it is the very basis for Christianity, which is the most followed religion in the world.

Let's take a look at Websters:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

It provides five definitions, since words can be used differently and have different meanings, but the first one and the one that carries the most weight in the common vernacular:

Definition #1:

religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious
also : its body of adherents
the voodoo cult
a satanic cult

Definition #3:

a system of religious beliefs and ritual
also : its body of adherents
the cult of Apollo


"Rabbinical cult" implies the worship of the rabbis, rather than the broader religion of Judaism and the worship of God (Elohim).

Your presentation makes it look more like the use word falling into definition #3.

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
I hardly think Judaism, one of the worlds oldest and most followed religions is deviant, nor novel, especially considering it is the very basis for Christianity, which is the most followed religion in the world.

Oh how I wish that were true, but Islam is the most prevalent "religion" in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by synthplayer:
… but Islam is the most prevalent "religion" in the world.

Why do you say that? Last I checked, which is just a moment ago, Christianity still has the most followers. Islam is a close second, but it’s still second.

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
Define cult.

First off, Wikipedia is not exactly a strong reference source, but if you must...

You linked to one "cult" sub-definition of the word "Cult," to the exclusion of all others, rather than the general disambiguation of the word which is located on their site here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_(disambiguation)

If you follow that link, the general definition provided for cult is:
A cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.

I hardly think Judaism, one of the worlds oldest and most followed religions is deviant, nor novel, especially considering it is the very basis for Christianity, which is the most followed religion in the world.

Let's take a look at Websters:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

It provides five definitions, since words can be used differently and have different meanings, but the first one and the one that carries the most weight in the common vernacular:

Definition #1:

religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious
also : its body of adherents
the voodoo cult
a satanic cult

Definition #3:

a system of religious beliefs and ritual
also : its body of adherents
the cult of Apollo


"Rabbinical cult" implies the worship of the rabbis, rather than the broader religion of Judaism and the worship of God (Elohim).

Your presentation makes it look more like the use word falling into definition #3.

This is why i don’t post here much anymore. I’m neither permitted to not take a side nor ask a simple question without being told that I didn’t mean what I meant. How about answering the question instead of ignoring it to quibble over a word?

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
This is why i don’t post here much anymore. I’m neither permitted to not take a side nor ask a simple question without being told that I didn’t mean what I meant. How about answering the question instead of ignoring it to quibble over a word?

I think you shouldn't be totally taken by surprise that people don't focus on your main question when you label a religion that many practice here in such an inflammatory way.

If you put "Rabbinical Jewish Cult" in your question instead of "Jewish Religion" people are going to focus on that.

If I labeled the worship of Christ as "a cult", I would expect people here to take exception.

quote:

Originally posted by Oregon:
… If I labeled the worship of Christ as "a cult", I would expect people here to take exception.

It is but anyway … so no one is going to answer my question? As I expected.

I’m certainly not surprised. I did choose the word purposely. Cult doesn’t necessarily have negative connotations but there are reasons someone would take it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by synthplayer:
… but Islam is the most prevalent "religion" in the world.

Why do you say that? Last I checked, which is just a moment ago, Christianity still has the most followers. Islam is a close second, but it’s still second.

I stand corrected. The last time I checked, which was in the late 1990s, it was Islam - at least according to the info I found at that time.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:

quote:

Originally posted by Oregon:
… If I labeled the worship of Christ as "a cult", I would expect people here to take exception.

It is but anyway … so no one is going to answer my question? As I expected.

I’m certainly not surprised. I did choose the word purposely. Cult doesn’t necessarily have negative connotations but there are reasons someone would take it that way.

I always associated the idea of a cult with a group of people who are not allowed to voice any opposing views. But, in the Bible, there is a verse wherein God says, "Come - let us reason together."

quote:

Originally posted by synthplayer:
I always associated the idea of a cult with a group of people who are not allowed to voice any opposing views. …

Like this thread?

The word cult is used with absolutely no negative connotations in theological discussions and papers very often. It’s just a system of beliefs.

There is distinction between the rabbinical jewish cult and the Karaite jewish cult. The main distinction is the Karaite jews reject the Talmud.

I Just was hoping anyone would answer my question. I may have missed it.

Please.

You can convince me of a lot of things, but you know you chose to use the word cult specifically to be provacative.

quote:

Originally posted by 83v45magna:
Please.

You can convince me of a lot of things, but you know you chose to use the word cult specifically to be provacative.

And …

another person not answering the question. I have follow up questions, too.

I can post it again

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
Is there distinction between spiritual Israel and political Israel? What I’m asking is if someone dislikes what they perceive as an opportunistic government can that be separated from hatred for the rabbinical Jewish cult?

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:...
Is there distinction between spiritual Israel and political Israel? What I’m asking is if someone dislikes what they perceive as an opportunistic government can that be separated from hatred for the rabbinical Jewish cult?

It depends on whom you ask, as the questions of "political" and "spiritual" as well as "Jewishness" are all a spectrum in their definitions and how they are perceived.

I, for one take umbrage with your trying to pigeonhole Jews into such narrow holes as you see each of them.

So, to answer your question as you asked:

"Is there distinction between spiritual Israel and political Israel? Yes, and No.

"...if someone dislikes what they perceive as an opportunistic government can that be separated from hatred for the rabbinical Jewish cult?" Yes and No.

There, that should settle it completely in your mind, or not.


Another thing would be for you to answer the question:

"Is there distinction between spiritual Christianity and political Church?

Is if someone dislikes what they perceive as an opportunistic hierarchy of Church organizations can that be separated from hatred for the Christian cults?

For the same reason "Rabbinic Judaism" came to be, (the loss of the Temple and what Jews always do in such times, falling back to a systematic life with the Rabbis (learned men) being the leadership (much like a congress/parliament).

A similar thing happened to the "Church" when the original was scattered to the winds in both the early years of "evangelizing" and then the influence of governments and rulers over various peoples.

2000 years and what is seen today of the "Church System" is a far cry from the teachings of the very beginning.

If this were not so, there would be a whole lot less fighting and separation of the whole of Christianity.