if it's the 883 as it was retired they're truly lost.


they killed the only Harley to peak my interest with the Bronx.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Thats an interesting twist, the new CEO is trying new things, they did cut some bikes from the line, the Road King is now gone from production.

HD's previous CEO was European and heavily into the Woke agenda, not quite sure what they saw in the man but to get revenue he leaned heavily on the big bagger line. That has been a popular line since many people want the better ride, and all the digital upgrades with apple car play, BT head sets, connectivity.

Used to be Bike Week was rowdy pipes and titties, now it's bling lights and loud radios, some so loud they are obnoxious, it's a thing and it's absurd. This too will pass.

I'm looking at trading in my 16 CVO Road Glide Ultra on a Heritage, 300+ pounds lighter, quicker, easier to roll around or back out of parking.

HD Dealers are suffering nationally, many stores closing, most are Satellite locations.

The Road King is still available for 2026 - it’s gone for 2027 ? What a bummer - put 65,000 miles on my 2006 Road King - still have it but wanted a new bike and bought a 2023 Roadglide Special - great bike and fast - have a Stage III (122 ) in it - pulls like a race horse.

You’ll miss your ride quality with a Heritage - I was gonna say take your trunk and louvers off or buy a Road King - lol.

MDS

883 is such a wimpy, girls bike. Doomed to fail yet again.

I think it is too late for HD to recover, they based their business model on a narrow group of buyers and they found out that will not sustain them. They are way behind the 8 ball with overpriced, technology lacking and heavy motorcycles.

Ok, got an idea here.

Build the basic 883 bike. Then offer D-I-Y kits such as big bore with a prepackaged tune, performance suspension, touring, commuter packages, etc. Market those both on the showroom floor AND through the Riding Academy, the latter with an incentive program of a discount off MSRP, reduced interest (using HD financing of course) or a combination of both.

On the subject of MSRP pricing, H-D should “encourage” dealers to have transparent pricing and none of this high pressure bull**** that’s going on in many of the dealerships today.

No tagged prices on bikes, sales staff “doubling up” on potential customers, the dreaded F&I office and the “dealership tour” where we (the staff) was supposed to push accessories and riding gear sales before the final sign off on the bike.

Oh, and the practice of “market adjustment” pricing. Once someone tries that I wouldn’t even give them the courtesy of “no thank you” before I would walk away.

You've got a company and dealers that sneer at any bike other than a big twin regardless of brand, what could go wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Next year HD is bringing back the 883 Sportster with a ballpark price tag of $10k

If I look at the direct competition, the Indian Scout 60 which has trim levels from $9,999 to $11,999.

One reason why the 883 Sportster was cancelled in 2022 was the Scout 60 had 150% more power for the money. Also, if you're trying to attract urban riders in stop n go summer traffic or southern riders dealing with hot, humid summers then the Scout 60 also had the liquid cooled advantage.

HD previously faced similar challenges with the 1200 Sportster vs the full size scout. Frankly, when I was in the market for a mid-size v-twin it was an easy decision choosing my Indian Scout over the HD offering. After many years of charging more for less, HD finally came out with the Sportster S. Most trims HD charged more money, but finally delivered with 10 more HP than the Indian and 50 lbs lighter.

The reason I brought up the 1200 Sportster upgrade to Sportster S is that HD could take the same approach with the 883.

However, that only addresses one direct competitor (Indian), but Honda plays in this market with their Rebel 1100 for $9699. Honda brings a 80 hp liquid cooled, with modern tech (cruise control, riding modes, traction control), and with the Honda reliability.

Now, if they want to address what young buyers are actually buying now with their $9,999 then that is a different class of motorcycle.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tatortodd,

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
Ok, got an idea here.

Build the basic 883 bike. Then offer D-I-Y kits such as big bore with a prepackaged tune, performance suspension, touring, commuter packages, etc. Market those both on the showroom floor AND through the Riding Academy, the latter with an incentive program of a discount off MSRP, reduced interest (using HD financing of course) or a combination of both.

Here's the problem I see with that Shovel. You're starting with a $10K basic 883. They then sell you a big bore kit, forks and shocks, through P&A for $2,500+. You then pay 12 hours at $140 an hour shop rate to change over the engine parts and suspension. You have over $14,000 in it along with a box of take-off motor barrels, pistons, and junk stock suspension. It's simply not a $14K motorcycle.

A 1200 version costs exactly the same so start with a 1200. Harley could substitute at manufacture the poor suspension that cost them $400 for better forks and shocks that cost $800. So $400 difference. They could add $200 extra profit and market a Sportster 1200 with nice suspension for $10,599.

quote:

On the subject of MSRP pricing, H-D should “encourage” dealers to have transparent pricing and none of this high pressure bull**** that’s going on in many of the dealerships today.

No tagged prices on bikes, sales staff “doubling up” on potential customers, the dreaded F&I office and the “dealership tour” where we (the staff) was supposed to push accessories and riding gear sales before the final sign off on the bike.

Oh, and the practice of “market adjustment” pricing. Once someone tries that I wouldn’t even give them the courtesy of “no thank you” before I would walk away.

I agree their dealer pricing and practices are deceptive and need to stop. Not just them even most auto dealers play the game. I'm surprised States or the Fed hasn't cracked down on the practices and demand only transparent final pricing being permitted under penalty of law.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:
I'm not quite sure why they can't make an inline high reving 4 like all the Japanese bikes.

You haven't noticed the Japanese trending from inline fours to parallel twins?

My question about how fucked up HD is would be this... Will the new "883" even be able to compete with a Japanese 600 CC bike? Quick answer is no. HD has relied on an age group that has the big $$ to spend on a bike but that crowd is rapidly getting too old to ride. HD fucked Buell (although it was never a performance bike) and are hoping to capture young riders. Good luck HD.

Originally posted by ridewv.[/QUOTE]

I agree their dealer pricing and practices are deceptive and need to stop. Not just them even most auto dealers play the game. I'm surprised States or the Fed hasn't cracked down on the practices and demand only transparent final pricing being permitted under penalty of law.[/QUOTE]

Well a crackdown isn’t going to happen at least with auto dealers, the NADA and on the state and local level the various state auto dealers associations is a powerful lobby.


Harley Davidson in the past encouraged single point full service dealerships but allowed some dealers to open “shops”, a satellite location with limited operations. This was mainly to get dealerships in areas that were good areas but not determined large enough to support a full store. I worked at one of those that later became a full fledged dealership. But during the great crash of 2008-09 the MoCo started closing and consolidating dealerships, about the same time they started allowing the rise of dealer group ownership. Where profit is everything, the rider is only looked on as a cash cow.

The last dealership I worked at became a dealer group store. Last auto dealer I worked at prior to retirement was a dealer group store, hated it. When my retirement H-D dealer sold to a group I said I’d give it a year before I made a decision to stay or leave, I left before the year was up.

All I know is the previous head of Harley was a disaster. Not only woke, thinking electric would be the answer, never moved to Milwaukee. It’s a little like the Bud Lite fiasco.

I own a Honda, but know the drill. They may be fighting some headwinds, but at least trying to change the direction of the company.

The BOD needs to change the mindset from top to bottom. Being more customer friendly should be priority number one. The MoCo can start by:
Clear and upfront pricing, maybe a form of Monroney Label being used and required to be on each new bike for sale.

Stop the high pressure sales tactics on the showroom floor. Those gave auto dealerships a bad name.
The end of allowing dealer groups to own multiple stores. We’re not talking two or three but ten or fifteen at a time. Allowing a dealer group to own multiple stores in the same marketing area makes for no competition and higher prices.

Ending the corporate policy of no parts sales to independent repair shops. Many of the dealers refuse to work on anything ten years and older so now you’ve either forced the owner to purchase his own parts. This cuts the profits of the independent dealers working on them or forces them to use aftermarket parts in place of factory engineered replacements.

Ending the corporate policy of not allowing a dealer out of my marketing area to fulfill a parts request. Maybe I don’t want to return to my designated marketing area dealer for some reason? Nope, the MoCo but official policy forces me to return if I want genuine parts. If that dealer out of my marketing area sells that part they risk fines imposed by the MoCo up to suspension of their franchise.

E-commerce stores? Nope, not going to happen under H-D corporate policy. Local dealer or nothing. Oh, dealers can also set their own pricing so if your local wants to charge double MSRP for that oil filter you’re stuck paying that for it.

Personally I don’t care one way or the other. I’m beyond buying a “new” bike, my newest one is a ‘02 police Electra Glide I bought in ‘03 and my oldest is a ‘82 FLH.

When Harley released the new EVO Sportster in 1986 they could have called it a 900. The reason for the 883 was insurance pricing. Insurance companies had higher premiums for 900cc and above bikes. Pretty smart move to keep the total cost down for new riders.

If I remember right they were priced at $3999 and HD guaranteed you a $3999 trade in if you traded up within a year. Another smart idea.

^^^^^^^^^
That was the Vaughan Beals era. When riders in the MoCo were making decisions based on what the customer wanted and not strictly on shareholder returns.

Too many short sighted decisions were made. Replacing the Sportster, the entry level bike with a 12k model that was 180 degrees from the 883/1200 Sportster. Dropping the Street line, the 500-750cc bikes. Sure, not a great seller but it did fill a niche, a commuter bike for those non traditional riders. Discontinuing the Dyna series and revamping the Softail frame and suspension, something that should have been done years ago.

Not to mention 50k touring bikes. That’s flat nuts.

All the DEI B.S., the Livewire fiasco and subsequent spinoff not to mention the 5k+ e-bicycles, the Serial 1’s that arrived and departed the scene rapidly.

Years ago the MoCo made it easy for dealership employees to invest in H-D stock, no broker fees. I did it for a small amount of shares but stopped around 04-5. It’s been sitting and collecting small dividends, two years ago I sold it off in disgust at less than I paid for it.

Yeah given the awful leadership from Harley's board of directors over the last 20 years it's amazing the company is still solvent. The stupid battery motorcycle must have lost them a fortune.

Anyone remember the MV Agusta purchase? Harley paid $110,000,000 for it in 2008, realized it was a mistake and two years later gave it back to MV's previous owners for ONE dollar.

On the Livewire topic,I quote from JALOPNIK:
Harley-Davidson's direct-to-consumer electric motorcycle brand LiveWire makes a variety of exciting and fun-to-ride motorcycles, and if the brand's 2025 first quarter financials are anything to go by, absolutely nobody is buying them. According to the report LiveWire sold just 33 motorcycles across Q1's 90 day period, down 72% from the same quarter last year. Perhaps potential electric motorcycle buyers either already have one or they're putting off big purchases until the current economic turmoil starts to ease up a little. Motorcycles aren't exactly a purchasing priority when you don't know if you'll lose your job or your retirement account overnight. Harley says the company's sales woes are "driven by a volatile macroeconomic environment and overall consumer uncertainty." You can say that again. 

I will fully admit to being a homer for LiveWire. I loved the bike so much when I attended the press launch event that I bought my own, and I still think it's the best bike I've ever ridden. It's difficult to say how long LiveWire will continue to exist if it costs The Motor Company millions of dollars. LiveWire as a brand, including its Stacyc "electric stability cycles" for kids, only managed to bring in $3 million in revenue across the first quarter of the year, for an operating loss of $20 million. For each of the motorcycles LiveWire sold between January 1 and March 31, it lost about $606,000. Yikes. 

Read More: https://www.jalopnik.com/18495...-million-dollars-q1/

Glad to hear they’re offering an affordable entry level option.
Not everyone can afford $20-30K for a big cruiser.
Or even wants one. We’ll see, Harley has been stepping on their dicks for the past 15yrs.
So I won’t be surprised if they squander this opportunity as well.