Page 1 2
Related Content: SIG Pistols
Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Peace through superior firepower  |
"The opportunity for our archaeological investigation of the battlefield occurred in 1983 after an accidental grass fire exposed the Custer battlefield surface, which for nearly three-quarters of a century had been obscured by thick vegetation. The fire laid bare the site on which Custer and his entire command died, exposing many artifacts from the fight. In 1983 the research was confined to the Custer battlefield area. The freshly exposed surface provided an opportunity to assess the kinds and numbers ofextant battle-related artifacts and determine their potential for enhancing the knowledge of the Custer battle. Jim Court, then monument superintendent and Neil Mangum, monument historian, collaborated with one of the authors (Fox 1983) in formulating several research questions. These developed primarily from a desire on the part of monument officials to improve interpretive capabilities for the public. One of the most perplexing interpretive problems has long been the issue of where the battle participants took up positions and exactly how they moved about the field. Another centered on the mysterious disappearance of twenty-eight soldiers. Historical accounts indicate these men were found and buried in a rugged ravine on the battlefield, but they have never been fully accounted for. Shortly after the fight Custer's dead were buried on the field where each was found, and presumably where each fell. The marble markers were placed many years later at suspected burial sites. Today there are 252 markers on a field where about 210 army personnel died. This and other discrepancies, which are detailed later in the historical overview, have raised concerns that many markers are erroneously placed." - Archaeological Perspectives on the Battle of the Little Bighorn by Scott, Fox, Connor and Harmon, 1989 | |||
|
Equal Opportunity Mocker |
What the guy did (knocking rust off) might seem offputting to the museum types, but probably not the worst thing that could have happened. I know a couple guys here in MS that would probably start eyeing that find with a thought toward half a can of rust converter, a steel brush and some WD40 (followed shortly by some light reloads and a "hold my beer" moment).  ________________________________________________ "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving." -Dr. Adrian Rogers | |||
|
Corgis Rock |
There is an excellent book “Archaeological Perspectives on the Battle of the Little Bighorn, by Douglas D. Scott, Richard A. Fox, Jr., Melissa A. Connor and Dick Harman (1989) After the grass fire volunteers with metal detectors swept the battlefield. Cartridge cases with marks from being fired allowed individual weapons to be tracked across the site. One Army carbine appears to have been captured and used in the attack against Last Stand Hill. The cartridge cases also show how they jammed soldiers weapons. Some showed sights of being pried out and others had the base torn off. One officer by Weir Point had a personal rifle equipped with a cleaning rod. It was also used to clear jams. Soldiers received little training in marksmanship and we’re encourage to shoot game for food and training. The cartridge cases corroded and many soldiers had canvas cartridge belts made to replace the issued leather ones. “ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull. | |||
|
| Member |
Another good book is "Where Custer Fell: Photographs of the Little Bighorn Battlefield Then and Now," published in 2007. https://www.amazon.com/Where-C...806138343/ref=sr_1_1 It's not about the weapons but the graves, it has then and now photos of where the soldiers died. We saw the visitor center and "Last Stand Hill" over 20 years ago, long before I read the book. I got chills walking up to the monument on the hill. | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower |
Yes, there's also Archaeology, History and Custer's Last Battle: The Little Big Horn Reexamined by Richard Fox, 1993. Fox is one of the author's of the first book mentioned. Fox's book goes into greater detail. I have copies of both. From the introduction of Fox's book: "The whole thing began in 1983 when a range fire swept across the Custer battlefield. James V. Court, then the superintendent of this National Park Service facility, invited me to look the ground over, rid as it was of obscuring vegetation. He wondered what, in terms of an archaeological record of the battle, might be left that would aid in his public interpretive mission. So I checked out the field and prepared two reports in which I argued that the physical traces of Custer's last battle exhibited significant interpretive potential. This led to more investigations. Much has already come of Superintendent Court's well-informed curiosity, and this work is the latest chapter. In a sea of indifference, he understood the value of archaeology. His foresight, dedication, and assistance have produced information of immeasurable value." | |||
|
Seeker of Clarity |
57 years in the dirt. Eventually landing on a table at a show. Amazing journey.  | |||
|
| Member |
Heck of a find and I don't take issue with the finding of the serial number. I too was fascinated by the placement of markers on site. You can almost watch the whole thing unfold and get a sense of each moment, unlike any other battlefields I've visited. I actually would like to see that done more though I understand the logistics would be insane for a number of reasons. | |||
|
delicately calloused |
There’s a thread here that asks, “if money were no object, what would you collect?”. If money were no object, I’d be an archeologist. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
|
Only the strong survive |
John Kopec is the expert on Colt Single Action revolvers and has written several books on Colts: https://www.johnakopec.com/ I had to look him up and he is still alive at 94. The Santa Barbara Historical Arms Association is a group of individuals that collect and share information on their firearms collection: https://www.sbhaa.net/ You have to have a collection of sufficient $$ to be a member. I went as a guest to several of their meetings in the mid 70's. A member would give a talk on some aspect of their collection. To see some of their collections as new in the box old Winchesters complete with hang tags was amazing. 41 | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower |
Regarding the 1933 recovery date of this pistol, about which Kopec says there is little information- I searched through my reference books on the battle and found only one reference to 1933. On page 193 of Archaeological Perspectives on the Battle of the Little Bighorn, there is a chart listing the coins found on the battlefield during the survey. A couple of coins are period-correct for the battle, but most are 20th century coins, no doubt dropped by visitors to the battlefield. One of these coins dates to 1933- a 1933-S half dollar piece. Coins dated close to that are a 1916 dime and a 1941 penny. I'd like to know more about what happened there in 1933, but if Kopec couldn't find details, there are no details to be had. | |||
|
Member |
Well this thread sent me down a two hour rabbit hole reading about the dig after the fire and artifacts that were discovered. While this was not recovered during the dig it was picked up off the battlefield seven years later by a rancher named Willis Spear and it remained in his family for a century. This Indian used Sharps 1874 rifle was proven to be used at the battle through forensic testing of cartridges and bullets found in the post fire dig. It sold for a little over a quarter of a million dollars at auction in 2017.  Link "Fixed fortifications are monuments to mans stupidity" - George S. Patton | |||
|
| Only the strong survive |
What is interesting is guys like Kopec started collecting in the early 50's when Colts were plentiful and no one was interested. I knew a person in Baltimore that collected derringers and pepper box pistols. We went over to his house to look at some of his collection. He had a four or five drawer bureau that contained pistols stuffed in socks.  Each drawer must have weighed 50 pounds or more.They also talked about buying old muzzle loaders that no one wanted. Later in the mid 60's, we were shooting black powder in the North-South Skirmish Association. 41 | |||
|
| Member |
If you haven't seen this, it will send you even deeper down the hole: http://www.npshistory.com/seri...gy/mwac/tech/124.pdf | |||
|
| Member |
The sound of that coarse wheel killed me. Using a flat file, he could have probably preserved the numbers better. It’s just a very ham handed way of doing it. But, he didn’t hurt it. Identified it. And, increased it’s value. | |||
|
| Member |
Speaking of Colts - I recall an interview a few years back with Adam Vinatieri, NFL 4-time Superbowl kicker. In the interview he talked about his great,great grandfather who was a 15-year old drummer in the band that accompanied Custer's army days prior to the battle of Little Big Horn. Custer told the band sergeant and his men to stay behind because the battle would be over in quick fashion and it wouldn't be worth their time to make the trip. | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower |
I agree. The guy is a jeweler, though. He used the tools he had at his bench. This is not to say he didn't have or couldn't have easily obtained a flat file, but it's something I think a jeweler is less likely to have in their shop. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
|
| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. In any case, this guy found and sort of preserved something many others had tossed out as trash or misidentified. Were his skills all they could have been? Maybe or maybe not, but he did better than anyone else that had possession of this artifact. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower |
You're telling me this? I've already told you this. | |||
|
| Member |
| |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2024