Yea that’s true. I got a screaming deal on my daughter’s VW Jetta. It was right after they got caught cheating and they were blowing out brand new cars. I stole it. And have proceeded to pay more for maintenance than my other 3 cars combined. lol

I stand by my assessment. Owning multiple cars per driver is what I believed he was inferring, maybe not. Owning 2 cars is not cheaper than 1 unless you perform the tortured reasoning as described above. If the break even is beyond a decade I think that is way too far for all but the most determined (prefintane). I’m not buying solar panels either. They need to come way down for me as well. A decade long investment in mechanical devices that break and can easily be damaged isn’t my idea of smart. It might be for you but I will stick with what’s worked for me quite well.

If I read it wrong and you are talking one car for you and one EV for the wife then that makes more sense to me. That wasn’t how I read it but I have been known to screw that up before.

While the tech and range is no where near a Tesla, Chevy just announced that their 2026 Bolt EV will start under $29k..

https://x.com/sawyermerritt/st...127219140370562?s=61

Get me the new roadster they have been teasing. With the ludicrous package.

Agree on getting back to stripped down models. All makers need an absolute entry level ‘new’ car folks can buy for next to nothing and still have it be reliable for next decade+ and 200k miles. 20-25 years ago you could buy a decent used car for 300-500$ and a new bottom end Ford or Toyota for well under $10k.

Earlier this year, a Jeff Bezos backed start-up manufacturer called Slate shared their their prototype of the stripped down EV truck and EV SUV. Bare bones (e.g. hand crank windows) and you can buy options individually rather than the infernal packages the old school companies require (e.g. you want one $1200 feature you have to take a $7000 package to get that one feature).

Tesla is wise having vehicles to compete in this market rather than leaving room for some start-up to take part of the EV market. Although, it doesn't look like they have yet to go far enough to compete with $27.5k that Slate proposed.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
One, has to specifically be a commuter/donkey. Something on the lower end of the MSRP scale. The other being a need for something like towing, etc. It makes no sense to daily drive an expensive truck needed for towing. You wear it out quicker doing mundane driving in it like commuting, grocery trips, etc. The more expensive it is, generally, is also the quicker it depreciates. So it makes no sense, financially, to drive an expensive vehicle everyday. Whether needed or wanted, for the 2nd vehicle, if it’s expensive, use the donkey instead for the mundane things.

This makes a lot of sense. You live in the 4th largest metropolitan area in US and I live the in 5th largest. Size wise, DFW is 8700 sq miles and Houston is 10,000 sq miles. To put the commuting in perspective, both have more than double the population of Connecticut and 1.6x to 1.8x larger in size than Connecticut.

I see people trying to commute to downtown and galleria in the 1-ton truck with 8' bed, crew cab, and huge towing mirrors. Even in Texas, it just doesn't fit in very many parking lots or garages. Surface lots in high density areas tend to charge a premium over parking garages so in addition to depreciation they're paying more to park their land yacht.

To be more specific on cost, the aforementioned 1-ton truck is $52,000 to $113,000. The Nissan Leaf is $26,000 to $39,000.

I work out of Texas a lot. Most people I see driving pickup trucks as a commuter are doing it in the same way my wife wears diamonds. It’s an accessory she likes not because she actually needs diamonds. So yea, if you need a commuter but you also need a pickup that is the outlier. Most pickups/commuter see very little hard use besides the very occasional HD run.

If you had to guess a percentage, how many pickup trucks on the road are bought for show and how many are bought for actual need/use? My nephew moved to Texas, got rid of his California EV (leaf maybe?) and drives the Texas Edition pickup de jour. He isn’t alone.

Outliers sure. For the vast majority one car makes the most financial sense. We own multiples because we can afford to, not need. Which I think is wonderful. My libertarian side says drive, own, plunder whatever you are able to. Ok, maybe not plunder.

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
Get me the new roadster they have been teasing. With the ludicrous package.

Agree on getting back to stripped down models. All makers need an absolute entry level ‘new’ car folks can buy for next to nothing and still have it be reliable for next decade+ and 200k miles. 20-25 years ago you could buy a decent used car for 300-500$ and a new bottom end Ford or Toyota for well under $10k.

Get your $50K ready and you can reserve one. https://www.tesla.com/roadster/reserve#payment

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
I don’t need blistering 0-60 times LED light bars all over.

I mean... I was with you until you wanted the LED light bars gone. I'm a man of simple tastes: I like my sci fi shit. I can't help it, I grew up in the 80's and watched way too much Knight Rider, Blade Runner, and Back to the Future. Strip all the extras off it, but keep some of the K.I.T.T. and Doc Brown DeLorean vibes and I'm there.

Sure they look cool. The Navigator I got my wife has a ton of them and they look cool.

But my reasoning for an EV is not to look cool. LEDs are expensive adding to the cost and when they go bad more of a cost.
I want the least expensive most mileage available EV.

It's tiny, I'm sure, but all the superfluous lights add some draw on the battery.
Might be <1 mile of range, but less 'stuff' to pull on the battery = more range.
Head lights [maybe foglights too], taillights, backup camera. Power windows, locks & front seats.
You lose some of the watchdog/dashcam features, but dropping a lot would, conceivably, lower the overall cost.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
I like my truck and use my truck as a truck quite a bit. So If I buy a used Y without selling the Tundra I save $200 a month on gas that could help offset the cost of the Y. That will also add years to the service life of my Tundra. So for a small cost thanks to gas savings and cheap electric rates I have a 3rd vehicle and I am good with that.

Get a quote from your car insurance company and see the numbers.

I recently went from a 19' Ram to a 24' F150 hybrid. 13mpg to 20mpg. $75 a month insurance to $133. I could only imagine what the insurance is for a Tesla or any other niche EV. Any of my perceived gas savings are wiped out by the insurance increase.

Plus seeing all your vehicle posts you are by no means a bare bones/ leave it factory kinda guy . You will soon be adding 5k in mods and accessories.

Dropped my 23 year old F150 and added a new Chevy Equinox EV RS, premium went down $15 per 6 months.

Yes had full coverage on the F150.

Sold the 19 MKC to Carvana, added a 25 Chevy Equinox EV LT for the wife, premiums dropped $20 every 6 months over a 6 year old suv.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Dropped my 23 year old F150 and added a new Chevy Equinox EV RS, premium went down $15 per 6 months.

Yes had full coverage on the F150.

Sold the 19 MKC to Carvana, added a 25 Chevy Equinox EV LT for the wife, premiums dropped $20 every 6 months over a 6 year old suv.

I think when EV’s went mainstream stream the insurance companies were a little scared about potential losses. They can absolutely be more expensive to repair in “some” accidents but I think they have found out that they are the safest vehicles you can buy (At least Tesla’s are) and not paying huge medical bills or god forbid lawsuits for a death does offer significant savings in the long run.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

got a screaming deal on my daughter’s VW Jetta. <skip ...> And have proceeded to pay more for maintenance than my other 3 cars combined.

Sounds familiar. Years ago, I got a great deal on a new Passat. The problems started the day I drove it off the dealer's lot. Left home, drove to my contract job, went through a toll booth, paid toll, electric window would not come back up. In the rain. Contacted VW America Corpoate, they told me to take it back to the dealer, 700 miles away. We had some words, they reluctantly agreed to express ship the parts and pay for a nearby independent shop to do the labor.

No exaggeration, I drove service loaners more days than I drove my own car. The week before the 3-year bumper to bumper warranty expired, I traded it for a lightly used GMC Jimmy, that gave me more than 200,000 miles of good service.

VW needs to bring back something simple, like the early bug. Screwdriver and pair of pliers and you could fix most anything.

I remember wanting a simple car to commute to work in and flat tow behind my Motorhome.This was back around 1992.
I found the Suzuki Samurai,perfect. About as simple as you could get. Everyone was equipped the same. No radio, no carpet,4spd man trans.,4 wheel drive,fuel injected engine, convertible, roll up windows,roll bar. It was easy to buy as all dealers were pricing the same equipped vehicle. $4500 out the door.
I could easily flat tow it by simply putting it in neutral and putting the transfer case in neutral. No need for towing brakes as the SUV was so light you could roll it around by hand.
It was a great SUV, the only thing I did not like was the very short wheel base, hitting bumps was like riding a bucking bronco.

I would love to see something like it appear again, but, with a longer wheel base.
The KISS principle sure applied to that SUV.

Something I don’t understand…

Speed consumes power.

The slowest Tesla vehicle does 0 to 60 in under four seconds. That’s simply not necessary.

Change that to say eight. You still have pretty quick vehicles.

Less power consumption means, smaller motors and cabling… and lighter weight, that equals more range with the same battery, which also means cheaper vehicles.

Just common sense is it not?

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:

The slowest Tesla vehicle does 0 to 60 in under four seconds. That’s simply not necessary.

Neither are 30 rounds in a magazine, but I want it....

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
I like my truck and use my truck as a truck quite a bit. So If I buy a used Y without selling the Tundra I save $200 a month on gas that could help offset the cost of the Y. That will also add years to the service life of my Tundra. So for a small cost thanks to gas savings and cheap electric rates I have a 3rd vehicle and I am good with that.

Get a quote from your car insurance company and see the numbers.

I recently went from a 19' Ram to a 24' F150 hybrid. 13mpg to 20mpg. $75 a month insurance to $133. I could only imagine what the insurance is for a Tesla or any other niche EV. Any of my perceived gas savings are wiped out by the insurance increase.

Plus seeing all your vehicle posts you are by no means a bare bones/ leave it factory kinda guy . You will soon be adding 5k in mods and accessories.

I already checked insurance. I have no idea where this idea of Teslas/EVs insurance rates are expensive.
A 2022 model Y is $85 a month for the same coverage as my 2014 Tundra that is $105 a month and our 2022 Navigator that is $120 a month.

As for modifying I won’t be doing that with the Tesla. For the last 20 years I have been fortunate to have a company car to drive as much as I wanted. So pretty much all my vehicles were technically fun vehicles and by having the company car had a little extra coin as I was not spending much on gas.
Since retiring I no longer have a company car so mileage on my truck is going up substantially. Now a little commuter vehicle would be nice.
Plus at this stage in the game I would not own a Tesla out of warranty so really not going to give them a reason to deny anything.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:

The slowest Tesla vehicle does 0 to 60 in under four seconds. That’s simply not necessary.

Neither are 30 rounds in a magazine, but I want it....

True!
But in the case of an electric car, I would prefer more range and a cheaper price.

Tesla is the only manufacturer making electric cars at a profit. The more affordable trims are around a 12% price reduction. The next generation will be substantially less expensive due to an entirely different assembly process, but those cars won't have steering wheels

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:
Something I don’t understand…

Speed consumes power.

The slowest Tesla vehicle does 0 to 60 in under four seconds. That’s simply not necessary.

Change that to say eight. You still have pretty quick vehicles.

Less power consumption means, smaller motors and cabling… and lighter weight, that equals more range with the same battery, which also means cheaper vehicles.

Just common sense is it not?

It is, very much so. But the American car market is far from common sense. Common sense would be a family, ferrying children around, buy a minivan or a station wagon. How popular are either today? Nah, Karen and Chad want a big ass SUV that “looks” like it’ll go off-road, but it never will, and would probably break with anything thrown at it more than a dirt or gravel road. Or better yet the almighty CUV with every other commercial showing some family driving down some dirt road in a mountain range or something to go camping and roast weeners. Something almost nobody does. It’s called marketing and it works on most.

Marketing owns the average buyer. They are so hooked on marketing they watch the Fester Bowl for the commercials where marketers show them consumer products they cannot afford that will be bought with money they don’t have to impress people they don’t know. It’s a joke.

The massive battery pack to obtain such power equals weight. Weight is not your friend in a vehicle. These EV’s are heavy as fuck (mine is relatively light in comparison), destroy tires, catch on fire, and in general are a got damn nuisance. But that is what sells..a narrative. Oooh look how fast it is in a straight line, amaze balls! A chimp or orangutan could be taught how to go fast in a straight line. Skill is fast in the corners. But people don’t care about that. Even enthusiasts (wannabe) will quote Nordschleife lap times and even they don’t understand that car is not off a production line. Blueprint engine. Modifications like a roll cage. Special tires. The last thing it is straight off a production line. IE, narratives are what sell, not reality. I’m really looking forward to the polar opposite, the Slate EV. Simple, inexpensive (comparatively), RWD small truck where get this..you have to roll the windows down manually with a lever. No ADAS. No bullshit. Not a bunch of flat screens in it either. Finally some reality in this space instead of hoopla. It sounds like Eminem in 8 mile, hippety hoopla, look Snoop Dogg got a fucking boob job…

And Tesla. Ok the batteries and drivetrain are good. But the build quality is shit. Until now they’ve been way overpriced and some still very much are (S, Cyberfuck, etc). But you have an iPad to control everything? I mean I have driven them. No instrument cluster. No tactile controls for simple things such as HVAC. No nothing but a damn iPad. You pay all that money and you can’t put an instrument cluster in that damn thing, nor switch controls? Not with my money. Will never be interested in such things. But here where I live, at a light, you’ll see 1, 2, 3, 4 of them. Egg shaped, many times the same color. And oh yes they are heavy. Performance variants with even bigger battery packs weigh as much or almost as much as my truck, which isn’t a daily driver, because it would be a stupid daily driver in a major metro.

Manufacturers all want us to buy the same things so they can make more money. Individuality, once championed in this space, has given way to herd mentality. Herd mentality = narratives. Herd mentality is “oh I can lock/unlock my Tesla with my iPhone.” Same mentality where most people clutch onto their phone, all day, everyday, like a small child to their security blanket.

Cars are on track to disappear in social meaning/be about the same as a phone.

Electric cars will get cheaper and cheaper, as battery prices drop.

All cars already look the same, because they follow the same modeling software.

The goal, from what I’ve read, is get them so cheap, that they are replaced if there’s a major issue, rather than repaired.