quote:

Originally posted by btanchors:
I've performed hundreds of UOAs (Used oil analyses) since the mid-1970's, and still do to this day. (I'm an amateur tribologist)

There is no question that analytically, oil contains far more contaminants from metals in the first several thousand miles of an engine's life. This is an established fact that cannot be refuted, because I have proven it repeatedly dozens of times, on lots of different vehicles.

What I CANNOT state as fact is how significant these increased metals are.

On average, it takes 3 - 4 oil changes to get the levels to establish themselves at whatever levels are normal for that engine. In general, contaminant levels stabilize between 20 - 30 thousand miles.

In my opinion, early oil changes are probably a waste of money. That said, I do have my first oil change around 1,000 miles just because it makes me "feel better".

But in reality, any real difference from early oil changes is probably so small, that you're more likely to get rid of the car for reasons other than a worn-out engine.

My $0.02...

quote:

The reason they keep extending the oil change interval is that it really isn't THAT important

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

The reason they keep extending the oil change interval is that it really isn't THAT important

Car mfg. have lots of reasons to extend that do not necessarily match my requirements. They are under tremendous pressure by the EPA to cut the amount of used oil. They are under pressure to make the fuel mileage standard which means we have thinner oils, and smaller parts including oil filters and oil pan size, etc. They are often under competitive pressures to include some service plan in the price of the vehicle. Etc.
But what I care about is ultimately very long engine life. And that is unlikely to be very high in their list. I change my oil more often than they recommend. And I think it has helped me get excellent service life out of my engines.
Of course if I got the same service life and spent less I might also be ahead. But new engines are silly expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by jigray3:
New Toyotas come with the full synthetic 0W-20 made for Toyota by Mobil 1. It is in fact a 10k mile oil. And further, the 0W-20 Mobil sells off the shelf is NOT the same stuff they engineer for Toyota. So basically, the good news is 10K is fine, but only if you use the Toyota oil, at this point anyway. I'm still getting used the the pourability of the 0W-20, but the reports are, despite the fact it appears "thin", it's good stuff.

BMW does a similar sort of thing, their oil, also a Mobil 1 product, is spec'd as a Long Life oil, and the vehicle monitors your driving habits and conditions and tells you when to change the oil, usually about a year for us.

Also, almost all fluids in your 4Runner are "lifetime" fluids including the differentials, transfer case, transmission, and coolant. Obviously, if you are doing regular off road driving or towing, or other hard driving, you'll want to shorten the intervals, and all my fluids get replaced at 100K just because of the chance of breakdown or contamination. The coolant is specifically for Toyotas (red), but there are aftermarket compatible clones. The diff and TC are pretty standard, but the weights are not commonly found. Redline makes some good ones though. The ATF fluid, however, that's only available from Toyota, AFAIK.

The power steering fluid is the oddball. It's clear or amber color from Toyota, but they actually spec Dexron II or III ATF for the steering box which is red. I just changed mine and went with the Mobil Full Synthetic Dex II/III compatible fluid which is supposed to be great stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
200 miles, dumped the factory installed conventional oil and replaced filter and put in conventional oil.

2000 miles, replaced filter and put in full synthetic.

At 6000 miles, replaced filter and full synthetic.

Repeat every 6000 miles.

Did go 7500 for two intervals, but the oil was a little dark, so went back to 6,000 miles.

These threads are like firearm lubrication threads. We all do what we do and 99.9% of us have no empirical data to back up why we do what we do.

And that's perfectly okay.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

I know all the typical comments like "the dealer knows what is best for the vehicle so listen to them" and "you're wasting your money". But I see it as cheap insurance and it certainly does not hurt anything.

Basically then, your mind is made up. My question to you then is, why change it at 5k intervals? Why not 3k, 2k, or even 1k? After all, your logic, it doesn't hurt anything and getting the contaminants out early, still applies.

I change the oil when the oil minder tells me to. The manual calls for 5w40 synthetic for my truck, so that's what I use.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:

quote:

The reason they keep extending the oil change interval is that it really isn't THAT important

Car mfg. have lots of reasons to extend that do not necessarily match my requirements. They are under tremendous pressure by the EPA to cut the amount of used oil. They are under pressure to make the fuel mileage standard which means we have thinner oils, and smaller parts including oil filters and oil pan size, etc. They are often under competitive pressures to include some service plan in the price of the vehicle. Etc.
But what I care about is ultimately very long engine life. And that is unlikely to be very high in their list. I change my oil more often than they recommend. And I think it has helped me get excellent service life out of my engines.
Of course if I got the same service life and spent less I might also be ahead. But new engines are silly expensive.