You're the one playing games. Billions of Muslims in the world and you provide about a half dozen names. If you want to stick your head in the sand, be my guest, but don't think for a second that anyone around here is buying what you're trying to sell us.

These psychopaths are out to destroy the world. Go ahead and be an apologist for them, but don't expect anyone here to be swayed by that stuff.

Your attitude, OTD, is a perfect example of why your continent is committing suicide.

whatever.......

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
Publications of: Yaşar Nuri Öztürk; Irshad Manji ; Salman Rushdi, Bassam Tibi; Ayaan Hirsi Ali; Irshad Manji, Ibn Warraq

Just to keep the conversation going, here is what I know or could discover about your list:

Yaşar Nuri Öztürk - died 2016. But he's dead so not really speaking up anymore.

Irshad Manji - Numerous death threats and I believe lives with/travels with security now.

Salman Rushdi - We've all heard about his fatwa.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Not a moderate Muslim. She's an ex-Muslim Atheist. Working her way to fatwa last I read.

Ibn Warraq - Ok... now this guy isn't even able to show his face or give his real name because he fears for his life. Right??

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
whatever.......

"Whatever?"

Look, I had a coworker that is a devout Muslim whose company I very much enjoyed. We'd have all kinds of discussions about all kinds of things--including religion. I didn't hold her religion against her. Didn't even hold her voting for Hillary Clinton against her.

But that does not change the fact that extremists in the name of her faith are bent on taking the entire world back to the 12th Century or so, are willing to commit unthinkable violence to achieve that, and most of the Muslim world is pretty much silent about it--at best.

And it does not change the fact that western Europe is seeing violence the likes of which it hasn't seen since the days of organizations such as the IRA, Baader-Meinhof and the Red Brigades.

And you just keep on doing more of the same that has resulted in it. It's like the entire continent has gone collectively insane. I do not understand it.

Here's a list of Islamic terror attacks in Europe since 2014:





Here's a list of Romanian terror attacks in Europe:



<Merkel and her minions>: Nothing to see here...move along! Schnell!! Achtung!!

Man, those woman and children refugees sure can stir up a ruckus.

quote:

Originally posted by Yanert98:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Ibn Warraq

True. Both have made it clear they don’t consider themselves Muslims of any version. In fact, Ibn Warraq wrote a book Why I Am Not a Muslim. Another of his books, The Islam in Islamic Terrorism directly attributes terrorism by Muslims to the tenets of Islam and teachings of Islamic scholars and theologians.
Ali wrote a book referring to herself titled Infidel.

I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a “moderate” Muslim—only Muslims who adhere to or espouse the tenets of their religion to greater or lesser degrees. The latter group can make their positions seem to be less fundamentalist by quoting selective parts of the Qur’an that were overturned by later “revelations” to Muhammad. In addition, Muslims feel fully justified in lying about their true beliefs to their enemies (who is everyone who is not a Muslim).

You guys need to lay off the Muslims. Nobody even mentions all the terrorist attacks by the Methodists during the same timeline. Hypocrites.

quote:

Originally posted by slabsides45:
You guys need to lay off the Muslims. Nobody even mentions all the terrorist attacks by the Methodists during the same timeline. Hypocrites.

And what about those Christian terrorists who wear shirts and ties, ring your doorbell and while you're cowering in abject fear under your bed, leave copies of The Watch Tower on your doorstep?

quote:

But that does not change the fact that extremists in the name of her faith are bent on taking the entire world back to the 12th Century or so.............

Actually the century the extremists have in mind is the 7th century.

quote:

Originally posted by oldRoger:

quote:

But that does not change the fact that extremists in the name of her faith are bent on taking the entire world back to the 12th Century or so.............

Actually the century the extremists have in mind is the 7th century.

Even worse. I’m an ardent reader of the ancient world and classical Greece/Rome. Islam may date from the 7th century AD, but the philosophy and culture is solidly in the Bronze Age (pre-6th century BC).

I saw some stats suggesting roughly 70% of Muslims support a Caliphate, even though they aren't activists or militants. That's a lotta potential trouble right threre. Even if it was 10%, though I'm sure it's more than that, that's still too much for the USA. Religious freedom is good, but hatred for our Constitution is NOT ok by any stretch of the imagination.

quote:

Originally posted by slabsides45:
You guys need to lay off the Muslims. Nobody even mentions all the terrorist attacks by the Methodists during the same timeline. Hypocrites.

LMAO.

The Muslim religion is so great, they stone women to death, as well as the gays....

Until women and gays are treated equal in their religion that religion can go fuck itself. Ripely would say to nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I'm aware. I also know that not all Romanians are the same. The nurse's aid, for example. (I mis-wrote when I wrote "nurse," earlier.) One presumes her sister is cut from the same cloth. There was the young lady that worked at the local video rental store during summer break for a couple years. The Romanian guy that worked in the service department where I used to work, and was one of the best people in that department. His Romanian wife was our receptionist for a while, and one of the best we ever had. Her brother works at my ex-employer's, now, too.

So it's just possible that, despite the fact Romanians (many eastern European nationalities, as I'm led to understand) have a bad rep in western European countries, the young lady in question is an upstanding, productive citizen.

Sorry for the late reply; I'm still swamped in family. Fully agree with the above. Of course the same goes for any other demographic. OTOH, immigrants themselves are sometimes rather biased against others of their kind, particularly based upon historical enmities between different countries of origin.

The in-laws of my brother #2 are ex-Yugoslavian, Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia, back when it all didn't matter. As stated earlier, Serbs are even more overrepresented in crime stats than Romanians (of course any Balkan type will tell you that's just due to the bloody gypsies from their countries), and much more so than Syrians and Turks. Obviously that doesn't go for the family; my sister-in-law works as a doctor for the same hospital company as my brother, her mother is semi-retired from a printing company she was employed at for decades, the father I believe is divorced and back home, the sister married a guy from the old country, but both live here. I really only got to know most of those relatives during my niece's baptism two weeks ago.

A little before that, my SIL elaborated to me on the trouble to find a daycare place for her baby daughter - which is hard in major German cities, and particularly in Berlin - and alleged that preferential treatment was given to immigrant kids for integration purposes. I happily told her that she could play the same card, since by official definition my niece also has a "migration background" - meaning anybody with at least one parent not born with German citizenship; and while my SIL was born in Heilbronn, she only naturalized after the breakup of Yugoslavia when she needed the citizenship, any citizenship, for the exams at medical school (I believe her mother eventually got Croatian citizenship). She was taken a little aback; in the good tradition of long-established immigrants anywhere, her family tends to think of themselves as locals and look down on later comers as the scum of the earth.

quote:

Originally posted by OTD:
Bassam Tibi

I happen to have studied politics in Islam under Tibi at Uni Göttingen. Let's say that his ego has no problem filling most rooms ...

He has actually been quite critical of the 2015/16 immigration politics. I think he's mad at some of his younger fellow Syrians/Arabs/Muslims for making the community look bad and wrecking his self-promotional project of Islamic reformation emerging from Europe (there are others who have much more practical, if limited success with creating liberal Muslim congregations in Germany).

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Here's a list of Islamic terror attacks in Europe since 2014:

Even better, here's a chart of fatalities from all terrorist attacks in Western Europe from 1970 to 2016.



https://www.statista.com/chart...s-in-western-europe/