Time to replace my 30 year old Makita circular saw.

Not sure if I should go corded or cordless or a small table saw.

Any suggestions welcom

Are you tied in with any battery systems such as Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita, etc.? If so, I would continue with that brand to keep the power system the same.

I'm a Milwaukee fan and have their M18 7.25" circular saw.

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
Time to replace my 30 year old Makita circular saw.

Did it die or is it dying?

I've a Milwaukee circular saw that's at least that old and it's still humming right along. Admittedly: It hasn't seen all that much use. And it was Milwaukee's best circular saw at the time. (8-1/4", roller bearings, serious HP.)

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
Not sure if I should go corded or cordless or a small table saw.

I've kind of fallen out of love with cordless power tools except for drills and drivers, so for something like a circular saw I'd be inclined to go corded.

Circular saw vs. table saw is kind of like oranges vs. tangerines. They can often do the same job, but often one is called for vs. the other. Depends upon the intended use. I have both.

We use an M18 impact at the shop but at home I have M12 tools including a 5 3/8" (?) circular saw that I like really well. It sees more use than my corded Milwaukee. But I also have a table saw that probably gets the most use.

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
Not sure if I should go corded or cordless or a small table saw.

Entirely dependent on your use. Can you elaborate more...

quote:

Originally posted by Krazeehorse:
We use an M18 impact at the shop but at home I have M12 tools including a 5 3/8" (?) circular saw that I like really well. It sees more use than my corded Milwaukee. But I also have a table saw that probably gets the most use.

Huge fan of Milwaukee’s 18V FUEL line. My stable of products includes the circular saw as well as the table saw. Love being able to set it up anywhere without worrying about extension cords!

-Rob

A 20v or 24v circular saw is pretty worthless. If you go cordless, get the 60v dewalt so you can make more than a handful of cuts.

In the past, cordless power tools have given up a significant power penalty to corded tools. 10+ years ago, cordless circular saws existed, but if you wanted to get serious work done, you reached for one with a cord.

That isn't necessarily true anymore.

Corded power tool power (at least, barring specialty heavy-duty stuff) is limited by the amount of power a normal wall outlet can supply - an absolute max of 120V at 15A, or 1800 watts.

Lithium ion battery technology has gotten good enough now that the high-capacity batteries can EASILY put out that much power. In fact, some cordless power tools now use MORE electrical power than a typical wall outlet can supply. So, a high-end cordless circular saw can be just as capable as a good corded circular saw.

There are still a couple of things to think about. Mainly that high capacity lithium ion batteries are heavy, expensive, and if you want to cut non-stop all day you'll need at least a couple and a place to plug in a charger.

If you've already got the batteries, no big deal, but if not, it adds a lot of $$$ to the price tag of the saw.

E.g., for Milwaukee, the M18 12Ah batteries (the biggest ones, that they recommend for the really high-draw tools like the big circular saw or chainsaw) are $220 EACH and weigh almost 3.5 pounds.

You can get a bit of a discount on batteries buy buying a tool-and-battery kit rather than bare tools and separate batteries, and there are occasionally sales on batteries, but they're still expensive. Again, taking Milwaukee, the 7-1/4" circular saw is $250 by itself or $450 with one 12Ah battery, a charger, and a bag.

I already have several of those batteries for use with the Milwaukee cordless chainsaw, air compressor, lighting, etc., so if I decide to buy a cordless circular saw, I can JUST get the saw. If I didn't, I'd need to spend AT LEAST $200 extra, maybe even a lot more, depending on how I was going to use it.

I'd recommend a small dewalt table saw. It will provide a more acutely cut and I find them to be more versatile.

I have a battery powered Milwaukee but I like the weight and feel of my corded Skil saw.
Neither is a replacement for a table saw, nor is a table saw a replacement for a circular saw.
No matter what you get, get some Diablo blades in various tooth counts.

I would feel lost without my Makita corded saw for use around the shop. It would get replaced with another one just like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
A 20v or 24v circular saw is pretty worthless. If you go cordless, get the 60v dewalt so you can make more than a handful of cuts.

That's not really how it works. You don't get the extra voltage for free. The 60V Dewalt batteries use the same lithium ion cells inside as their (and everybody else's) 18/20V batteries.

One cell is 3.6V.

"20V" batteries are actually 18V. 18/20V batteries use sets of five cells in series (5 * 3.6V = 18V).

Dewalt's "60V" batteries are actually 54V, and use fifteen cells in series (15 * 3.6V = 54V).

Let's look at Dewalt's 12 Ah 20V/60V Flexvolt batteries. They're only 12 Ah when used as a 20V battery. Used as a 60V battery, they're 4 Ah. Internally, they have fifteen, 4 Ah cells. They can either parallel three banks of five cells in series (18V @ 12 Ah) or put all fifteen cells in series (54V @ 4 Ah). Either way, the total power capacity is 216 watt-hours.

Milwaukee's M18 12 Ah batteries also use fifteen, 4 Ah cells, they're just always configured as three banks of five cells in series (18V @ 12 Ah). The total power capacity is exactly the same at 216 watt-hours.

Now, there IS some electrical efficiency to be gained by operating at higher voltage and lower current, which decreases resistive losses and also lets you get a bit more juice out of the battery.

However, in this context, the difference is actually pretty minor and you won't get a dramatically longer runtime from a 60V tool than from an equivalent tool using equivalent 18/20V batteries.

If you're comparing a modern tool with a brushless motor and 60V battery using modern lithium ion cells to a 10+ year old tool with a brushed motor and obsolete lithium ion, or especially NiMH/NiCad, batteries, sure.

My 40 year old worm drive circular saw still works great but it is not the most convenient.
No battery model can compete with the corded versions for HD use.
However, my 18V Milwaukee does a decent job on light to some med projects but not as powerful but much easier to use and set up.
You may need both IMO, it depends on the task at hand.

Just homeowner type jobs.

Need to add an attic stairs, cut some 2x4s down that sort of thing.

I am just wondering if the new battery saws can work as well or close to the old corded ones.

And what size of blade to get.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
A 20v or 24v circular saw is pretty worthless. If you go cordless, get the 60v dewalt so you can make more than a handful of cuts.

That's not really how it works. You don't get the extra voltage for free. The 60V Dewalt batteries use the same lithium ion cells inside as their (and everybody else's) 18/20V batteries.

One cell is 3.6V.

"20V" batteries are actually 18V. 18/20V batteries use sets of five cells in series (5 * 3.6V = 18V).

Dewalt's "60V" batteries are actually 54V, and use fifteen cells in series (15 * 3.6V = 54V).

Let's look at Dewalt's 12 Ah 20V/60V Flexvolt batteries. They're only 12 Ah when used as a 20V battery. Used as a 60V battery, they're 4 Ah. Internally, they have fifteen, 4 Ah cells. They can either parallel three banks of five cells in series (18V @ 12 Ah) or put all fifteen cells in series (54V @ 4 Ah). Either way, the total power capacity is 216 watt-hours.

Milwaukee's M18 12 Ah batteries also use fifteen, 4 Ah cells, they're just always configured as three banks of five cells in series (18V @ 12 Ah). The total power capacity is exactly the same at 216 watt-hours.

Now, there IS some electrical efficiency to be gained by operating at higher voltage and lower current, which decreases resistive losses and also lets you get a bit more juice out of the battery.

However, in this context, the difference is actually pretty minor and you won't get a dramatically longer runtime from a 60V tool than from an equivalent tool using equivalent 18/20V batteries.

If you're comparing a modern tool with a brushless motor and 60V battery using modern lithium ion cells to a 10+ year old tool with a brushed motor and obsolete lithium ion, or especially NiMH/NiCad, batteries, sure.

That is exactly how it works....

12 Ah is three times greater than 4 Ah, so you can make three times as many cuts. Alternatively you could use an 18/20v battery and have three batteries on hand.

All batteries work the same be it for a car, saw, motor boat. Cells put out power you hook them in series or parallel depending on what you need for end power or voltage. They can also be connected in series/parallel to give you increases in both voltage and amps.

The two saws I use most are my Makita 10" sliding compound miter saw and this: Rockwell 4-1/2″ Compact Circular Saw



I mainly bought it to use in place of hand saws for quick-and-dirty cut-offs, but found it useful for a lot more than that. E.g.: When I had to cut the angles on the 2x6 rafter ties for the Garage Remediation Project, this is the saw I grabbed. Also used it to trim flush the 1/2" plywood I installed atop the rafter ties for storage.

I suggest you check into refurbishing your Makita saw. I have several refurbished Bosch corded tools that had factory warranty but 2/3 the price of new.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
That is exactly how it works....

12 Ah is three times greater than 4 Ah, so you can make three times as many cuts. Alternatively you could use an 18/20v battery and have three batteries on hand.

All batteries work the same be it for a car, saw, motor boat. Cells put out power you hook them in series or parallel depending on what you need for end power or voltage. They can also be connected in series/parallel to give you increases in both voltage and amps.

The quoted amp-hour capacities for the Dewalt Flexvolt batteries only apply when the batteries are used in the 20V configuration.

The 20V/60V 12 amp-hour Flexvolt batteries are not 12 amp-hour in both 20V and 60V configurations. They are 12 amp-hour at 20V (actually 18V) and 4 amp-hour at 60V (actually 54V).

Dewalt has not magically figured out how to stuff three times the power capapacity into the same space as everybody else.

All the power tool manufacturers use the same commodity 18650 and 20700 lithium ion cells inside their batteries. None of them make their own cells.

The 20V/60V 12 amp-hour Flexvolt batteries have the same fifteen, 3.6 volt, 4 amp-hour lithium ion cells in them as everybody else's 18/20V 12 amp-hour batteries. They have the same power capacity.

If you're still having trouble with this, here's a real-world test someone did between three cordless circular saws, including a Milwaukee with an 18V, 9Ah battery and a Dewalt 60V MAX circular saw with a 9Ah 20V/60V MAX battery.

https://beltsandboxes.com/cord...-flexvolt-vs-makita/

They cut strips off two layers of 1/4" ply until the battery died on all the saws.

The Dewalt cut 290 linear feet and the Milwaukee cut 277 linear feet.

The Dewalt cut slightly more (about 5%), but nowhere near three times.

I have the Milwaukee 18V 2830 cordless.

I've been quite happy. I've been moving to cordless as much as possible in anticipation of off-grid building. This saw has handled everything I've thrown at it so far.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
....

The Dewalt cut slightly more (about 5%), but nowhere near three times.

I think we are talking past each other here. Let's skip brands and marketing. Earlier you mentioned watt hours. This is a measurement of work. Think of it as a gas tank, if you have a five gallon tank you can drive 100 miles, if you have a fifteen gallon tank you can drive 300 miles. So unless you are like me and have a half dozen 20v batteries laying around, having a tool that accepts 60v batteries and 20v batteries (nominal value) than you won't be able to use them for any serious projects, just a few cuts here and there. I've done the real world testing the 60v do ~ 3x the cutting as the 20v ones assuming you allow some time to cool between cuts. Otherwise 3 x 20v actually will give you more cuts because your not dealing with a hot battery as often.

In the end 120vac > 60vdc > 20vdc if measuring by watts. If measuring by convenience and limited work being done 20v > 60v> 120v. It all depends on how you're planning to use it. If I was farming a basement and using a circular instead of a chop, I'd opt for corded. In my case I have 6-7 20v and one 60v, so I could do with cordless and have time to allow batteries to cool then charge.