I don't really want them recording serials, either, but I will say that I'd bet that MOST people traveling with firearms either 1) don't know them at all or 2) won't be able to get them until they reach the destination. IF (big "if") it means that it can be properly entered stolen sooner, I think that's a benefit.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks.

There's no exception in the law allowing the individual to give up the key or combination to TSA or anyone else. When asked, I've opened my locks for TSA, they've examined my bag in front of me, and I relock the locks.

I forget which airport it was, but a 3 or 4 years ago I was escorted to a room where they asked me to open the case and show them it wasn't loaded. It was weird, but no real hassle and only added about 5-10 minutes to my check in.

I usually fly with firearms quite a bit, but I haven't flown since COVID, I'll be curious to see how wide spread this is.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

I thought you weren't supposed to hand over the lock keys to anyone including the TSA.

Up until fairly recently, you were correct. I don't know when that changed, but it has changed.

I took the written exam for ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) in 2016. There was quite a large section, both in the study material and on the actual test, about things like traveling with firearms, and also armed escorts for prisoners.

At the time that I took the exam, 2016, it was very clear that the passenger was the ONLY person who should be able to open the lock on a firearms case. TSA locks were specifically not permitted. The passenger was to retain possession of the key or the combination at all times and was not to hand it over to anybody for any reason, but the passenger was to unlock the case for inspection if requested by TSA.

Some time between August 1, 2016, and the present, the rule was changed so that TSA locks are now permitted, and the passenger will relinquish the key or combination to the lock if requested by TSA.

---

I just had a BRILLIANT thought! How about using one of those little cases that has a biometric lock? Leave the key at home, so the only way that the case can be opened is with the passenger's thumb print. "No, I'm not going to let you cut my thumb off so that you can take it into the inspection room."

I only fly to Phoenix now to see my mother. My brother and I have each stashed a weapon and ammo there. I just don't fly with guns. Try to avoid flying at all.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Just asked my FFL about this and he said recording serial numbers was totally illegal.

Perhaps he'd care to cite the law that makes it illegal?

The ban on a federal registry.

A good friend of mine was returning from Afghanistan as an individual mobilized for the Air Force which requires the issued weapons he carried to and from the deployment by the service member who also has orders indicating possession of weapons authorized.
He was traveling in uniform and was held up by TSA because his equipment swabbed positive for gun shot residue- no kidding. Took some time and involvement from a supervisor before he was cleared to fly.
Another friend in Marine Force recon was flagged ( he was traveling low profile civilian clothes bearer) due to explosives residue popping positive. They asked if he knew what they found and he listed multiple explosives agents by name. They staggered in shock then he showed them his military ID and said well of course you found all that- I breech doors for a living.

At least they stopped making military people remove boots at check in, though I have seen them
Give people in dress uniforms a hard time as all the medals

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Just asked my FFL about this and he said recording serial numbers was totally illegal.

Perhaps he'd care to cite the law that makes it illegal?

The ban on a federal registry.

Is irrelevant. It's not illegal to note the serial number on a firearm, or to check it. Further, there's no evidence that a registry is attempted or formed when TSA checks luggage or firearms.

Anything you put on that airplane, carry on the airplane, check on the airplane, or send on the airplane is subject to inspection. You're not forced to do this: you have the option to not travel or to not take items on board. If you do take them on board, however, a condition of passing into a secure area is that all persons and property are subject to search and inspection. This is a federal requirement, and has been so for a very long time.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks.

There's no exception in the law allowing the individual to give up the key or combination to TSA or anyone else. When asked, I've opened my locks for TSA, they've examined my bag in front of me, and I relock the locks.

I don't know what you mean by "give up the key." I have cited the regulation and the TSA site, both, and in fact several points in the regulation that addresses the requirement.

You don't have to show anyone the firearm, period. If you choose to go that route, your firearm will not be traveling.

The regulation you linked does not support the TSA website information you posted. I'm not the only one to notice this. The regulation says "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination". No where in that regulation does it say give the key or combination to the TSA or anyone else upon request.


"You don't have to show anyone the firearm, period. If you choose to go that route, your firearm will not be traveling."

I don't understand what you mean by this? I posted clearly and concisely what my experiences have been and no where did I say I refused to show anyone my firearm or luggage, nor did I say anything about not complying with the law. I haven't had a single problem with the TSA and traveling with firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

The regulation you linked does not support the TSA website information you posted. I'm not the only one to notice this. The regulation says "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination". No where in that regulation does it say give the key or combination to the TSA or anyone else upon request.

I believe that you are looking at an obsolete version of that regulation.

As I posted above, your understanding was absolutely correct in 2016. Some time between then and now, I am not sure exactly when, the regulation was changed and now the key or combination may be required by TSA.

This has been discussed here on SIGforum previously, and the new version of the regulation was posted here.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
The regulation you linked does not support the TSA website information you posted.

Actually, it does, and is current.

14 CFR 1544.203 stipulates that you retain the key or combination. You must make the firearm available for inspection, however, and must consent to search "in accordance with the system prescribed by this part," (TSA-which does change policies and procedures and does vary them by location). If TSA requests the key, you don't have to give it to them. In turn, they don't have to let the firearm travel.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/tra...earms-and-ammunition

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t...9.1544_1203&rgn=div8

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

Actually, it does, and is current.

Actually, it doesn't.

You can't admit that you are mistaken, can you?

Spell it out, then. Why do you think that the regulation states something different?

The regulation states that you'll comply with the TSA program. You've been given the TSA program.

Which part don't you understand?

That doesn't mean you have to give them the key, it means you have to turn it over to unlock the case to let them inspect.

It says "only the passenger should retain the key/combination". The TSA can "request the key to open the container." They do not get sole possession of the key.

Of course they don't get to keep a copy of the key. The regulation is clear on that. However, if the local office conducts their inspection in an area that you can't go, they may request the key or combination. You get it back.

If you don't want to give it to them to go do their inspection, then your firearm will be unable to travel. And your luggage that contains the firearm.

For those that think the regulation means that the owner never lets go of the key, their mistaken; nothing in the regulation states this, but the CFR does state that you're required to submit to inspection according to the system prescribed. If that system, at that location, requests your keys, you can turn them over, or find another way to ship the firearm (or attempt to negotiate something else: good luck).

I have heard rumblings from recent travelers that the TSA has been absolutely unbearable to deal with over the past few weeks.

Maybe some Airline CEO's should open their eyes and realize that some folks don't/won't select air travel because they don't want to deal with the TSA and all their bullshit.

Just returned after a 2-week trip; checked a handgun with AmericanAirlines and no issues at all with TSA to/from Philly and St. Louis.

Now, as for the AVIS delays...................

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:

Maybe some Airline CEO's should open their eyes and realize that some folks don't/won't select air travel because they don't want to deal with the TSA and all their bullshit.

Airlines don't have the option of telling the TSA what to do or not to do. The TSA does not work for the airlines. Airlines rent gate space at the airport for enplaning and deplaning passengers, and counter space to receive bags. Municipalities and port authorities run airports. The federal government runs the TSA.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
I have heard rumblings from recent travelers that the TSA has been absolutely unbearable to deal with over the past few weeks.

Maybe some Airline CEO's should open their eyes and realize that some folks don't/won't select air travel because they don't want to deal with the TSA and all their bullshit.

I haven't had any issues at all recently dealing with the TSA.

I have never had any issues with the TSA, irregardless of whether or not they are a viable, effective entity. I also don't necessarily expect the average TSA agent to be as knowledgable about firearms as the average enthusiast or owner.