Among the gems:

AR-15s are too heavy and require two hands, which is why he recommends people use a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun with buckshot instead

First of all, many pump shotguns are heavier and most are longer than the ubiquitous 16" AR15 carbine. Minimum barrel length on a non-NFA shotgun is 18" and few shotguns have collapsible/adjustable-length stocks, unlike AR15 carbines.

On top of that, who is this mook who is saying that pump shotguns do not require the use of two hands? The AR15 can be fired one-handed, assuming sufficient grip and arm strength of the shooter and can still be fired one hand without such strength, by resting the rifle on some sort of support- a kitchen counter or the like. The pump shotgun can be operated one-handed but only if a shooter has been shown the technique for doing this.

And "complicated"? Short-stroking of the pump shotgun by inexperienced shooters and the advantages of semi-auto shotguns (which extends to self-loading rifles) discussed here.

"Speedloaders are easy to use"? Oh, really? Inexperienced shooters under the high stress of a shooting situation? Yes, it's so complicated to eject an empty magazine, insert a fresh magazine and drop the slide, isn't it? In the reloading of a hand ejector revolver, there is analogue to all those actions and in two of the three actions required for reloading, the revolver requires complex action. (1- open the cylinder and turn the revolver barrel-up in order eject the empty shells by pressing the ejector rod, versus pressing a button to eject an empty magazine; 2- stabilize the cylinder, align the cartridges in the speedloader with the chambers, turn or push the knob on the speedloader to release the cartridges, making sure they drop into the chambers, and discard the speedloader, versus inserting a loaded magazine)

Furthermore, after charging the chambers, care must be taken to not tip the revolver in such a way as to allow the cartridges to fall free from the chambers before the cylinder is closed, whereas there is no such possibility with the semi-auto pistol, which can accept a fresh magazine with the pistol held at any angle.

Ridiculous!



https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/.../1715762535733879100

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:


On top of that, who is this mook who is saying that pump shotguns do not require the use of two hands? [/FLASH_VIDEO]

He must have seen Linda Hamilton do that in Terminator. Matter of fact, he saw the movie twice just to make sure so that makes him an expert.

I mean none of my shotguns have a pesky complicated safety…….oh wait.

Well none of my shotguns have a pesky pump or charging handle to load a roun…….oh wait.

Well all of my shotguns are super light Wei…….ohh yeah wait.

WELL YOU HAVE TO AIM AN AR15!!! And all of my shotguns I can just point in the general…….errrr oh wait.


Sigh. It’s literally to the point where they are throwing literally laughable shit out there like that. I mean I LIKE 12 gauge shotguns and it would be hard for me to recommend them over a 16 inch AR for most folks.

He's a graduate of the University of Pulling Shit Out of His Ass. Dr. Phil is an alumnus.

It's apparent that the point of this nonsense is to encourage gun owners to limit themselves to low capacity, manually operated firearms.

$400/hr.

If this is the bar, then I can make money being an expert on NEARLY everything.

I would hope that there would be a rebuttal witness in a case like this.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
I would hope that there would be a rebuttal witness in a case like this.

My Cousin Vinny, “Everything that guy just said is bullshit.”

Based upon the garbage I read, we have at a minimum, several hundred "firearms experts" in this forum.

Everyone posting in this thread is an expert who can run rings around the BATF's expert. What a joke.

It's as I said- this is about encouraging gun owners to limit themselves to old technology, and it seems to me that this urging stems from a fear of the American gun owner. It's laughable.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
I would hope that there would be a rebuttal witness in a case like this.

Wham they’re pushing an agenda, rebuttal is not allowed.

^^^^^^^^^^^
OK but when is contradictory expert testimomy allowed?

I am badd-ass but not LindaHamilton with a broken wing five 870 12G rounds to the torso badd-ass.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
^^^^^^^^^^^
OK but when is contradictory expert testimomy allowed?

Everytime, (Maybe not EVERY time) but conflicting expert testimony happens. Responsibility, ultimately fall on the Judge or Jury.

HOWEVER, I'm no lawyer but I'd find it hard to believe this person's credibility as an EXPERT and I would hope one was good enough at their job to quickly point that out to the previously mentioned fact-seeking tribunal.

I don't know the facts but just sitting in my house throwing out words on this forum I would imagine this would be like an underhand pitch softball to the opposition.

And yet, these are the people that interpret the laws requlating firearms, have rulemaking authority, and subsequently undertake enforcement action(s) based on said interpretations and/or rulemaking.

Oh, and "loaded with buckshot". This won't penetrate body armor, as opposed to 55 grain 5.56, which will penetrate some body armor.

You know- the kind worn by law enforcement such as the BATF.

quote:

Everytime, (Maybe not EVERY time) but conflicting expert testimony happens. Responsibility, ultimately fall on the Judge or Jury.

HOWEVER, I'm no lawyer but I'd find it hard to believe this person's credibility as an EXPERT and I would hope one was good enough at their job to quickly point that out to the previously mentioned fact-seeking tribunal.

^^^^^^^^^^
That is what I thought. Conflicting testimony is frequent particularly in psychiatric cases.

This never gets old

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
^^^^^^^^^^
That is what I thought. Conflicting testimony is frequent particularly in psychiatric cases.

Yup, made me think of a conflicting medical diagnosis.

Believe it or not, back when I worked one of the most popular gun counters in the county I got asked to be an expert witness in a gun related case.

The twit, erm...defendant, had allegedly pointed a pellet pistol at his baby momma's head and threatened her with brain flight.

For me, it was a great experience to actually participate in a trial. Long story short, it really came down to the judge looking at exhibit A and noticing it said "Warning: this fucker can kill your ass" or words to that effect we all know. He came to the proper conclusion in the case.

Paid experts, hired by a side to help advance an agenda, are not neutral or reliable. They will say damn near anything that isn't plainly nonsense to the uneducated, and will sometimes say things that are pretty close to nonsense. In any lawsuit, for example, one side will have an expert saying A, and another saying not-A.

Take the "AR is heavy" example. That guy will weigh an AR with a night vision scope, a red dot, an IR illuminator, handgrips, piggyback mag carrier, and every other accessory known to the mall-ninja. The other guy will weigh a stripped down M4 carbine-style gun.

It is each side's job to discredit the other expert, and often this comes down to praying the fact-finder gets it right.