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This is what passes for "expert" gun testimony Login/Join 
Knows too little
about too much
Picture of rduckwor
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You had me at "former ATF agent".

RMD




TL Davis: “The Second Amendment is special, not because it protects guns, but because its violation signals a government with the intention to oppress its people…”
Remember: After the first one, the rest are free.
 
Posts: 20426 | Location: L.A. - Lower Alabama | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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Somewhere Mas Ayoob is laughing himself into a coma.
Or crying.
 
Posts: 1130 | Location: Cary NC | Registered: July 18, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
Oh, and "loaded with buckshot". This won't penetrate body armor, as opposed to 55 grain 5.56, which will penetrate some body armor.

You know- the kind worn by law enforcement such as the BATF. Roll Eyes


The Brass pellet will go thru armor

https://www.ballisticmachinist.com/brass-pellets

[GI Joe] and knowing is half the battle[/GI Joe]



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11574 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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Yes, and those are so common, aren't they? Flechettes from a shotgun would probably penetrate as well, but that's not the point, is it? Not at all.

Neither of those things will be loaded in the shotgun of the average citizen.
 
Posts: 110088 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree with Para, if you tell a lie long enough, someone is bound to believe and act on it.
 
Posts: 7198 | Location: Treasure Coast,Fl. | Registered: July 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:


Everyone posting in this thread is an expert who can run rings around the BATF's expert. What a joke.



That reminds me of the exchange between congressman Massey and a Democrat who was insisting a pistol brace makes the gun an automatic. I can't find it now on YouTube.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 20263 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Lt CHEG
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
Among the gems:

AR-15s are too heavy and require two hands, which is why he recommends people use a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun with buckshot instead

First of all, many pump shotguns are heavier and most are longer than the ubiquitous 16" AR15 carbine. Minimum barrel length on a non-NFA shotgun is 18" and few shotguns have collapsible/adjustable-length stocks, unlike AR15 carbines.


I looked but didn’t see a name Para. Do you have this witness’s name? I wonder if I know of him, and if he had a decent reputation when I was working there?




“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
 
Posts: 5671 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: February 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Striker in waiting
Picture of BurtonRW
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
Paid experts, hired by a side to help advance an agenda, are not neutral or reliable. They will say damn near anything that isn't plainly nonsense to the uneducated, and will sometimes say things that are pretty close to nonsense. In any lawsuit, for example, one side will have an expert saying A, and another saying not-A.

Take the "AR is heavy" example. That guy will weigh an AR with a night vision scope, a red dot, an IR illuminator, handgrips, piggyback mag carrier, and every other accessory known to the mall-ninja. The other guy will weigh a stripped down M4 carbine-style gun.

It is each side's job to discredit the other expert, and often this comes down to praying the fact-finder gets it right.


Yes, but this testimony is so ridiculous it would make for an entertaining Daubert challenge, don’t you think? Just defining general acceptance in the relevant scientific community would be interesting.

-Rob




I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888

A=A
 
Posts: 16333 | Location: Maryland, AA Co. | Registered: March 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Maybe this former ATF agent was inspired by the article written by none other than Gersh "AR-15" Kuntzman himself.

From Kuntzman's Daily News article back in 07-2014 -

New York Daily News journalist: Firing an AR-15 gave me PTSD

The article is pay-walled but here are some snippets from his article published elsewhere on-line mocking Kuntzman's traumatic experience -

"It feels like a bazooka — and sounds like a cannon," the New York Daily News' Gersh Kuntzman said in an article published Tuesday.

"The explosions — loud like a bomb — gave me a temporary case of PTSD. For at least an hour after firing the gun just a few times, I was anxious and irritable."

"I've shot pistols before, but never something like an AR-15. Squeeze lightly on the trigger and the resulting explosion of firepower is humbling and deafening (even with ear protection)," the journalist wrote.

"The recoil bruised my shoulder. The brass shell casings disoriented me as they flew past my face. The smell of sulfur and destruction made me sick," he added.

What a maroon!


__________
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal labotomy."
 
Posts: 3631 | Location: Lehigh Valley, PA | Registered: March 27, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Non-Miscreant
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All such bullshit. Wait, I have a 12 gauge with a 14" barrel. But its one of those clmplex pump action things, too. Betcha can't fire it with one hand....Well, you can but you might hurt yourself. And how ya gonna pump it?


Unhappy ammo seeker
 
Posts: 18394 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: February 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I prefer a 12 gauge pump for inside the Home Defense simply due to concerns about over penetration and my expertise with a shotgun. However I also have 3 AR15's and they are my primary choice for external defense due to their accuracy and reliability.

As for this "expert", he's former ATF, Nuff Said.


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 5783 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Short. Fat. Bald.
Costanzaesque.


Picture of TexasScrub
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___________________________
He looked like an accountant or a serial-killer type. Definitely one of the service industries.
 
Posts: 2061 | Location: Victoria, TX | Registered: February 11, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
I would hope that there would be a rebuttal witness in a case like this.


There will be. Both sides will submit expert declarations to the court and the court will then decide whether it can enter judgment without a trial (a summary judgment) or if a trial is necessary.

The absurdity of this testimony is notable in the abstract but it’s routine in litigation. For the right fee you can find an expert (which in this context only means that they have sufficient training or experience) to say pretty much anything. It shouldn’t matter though - under Bruen the court shouldn’t be considering whether the challenged policy is a good idea, only whether it is historically consistent with the Second Amendment.
 
Posts: 1015 | Location: Tampa | Registered: July 27, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Blume9mm
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what I learned years ago while reading a transcript of a lawyer questioning the expert witness for the other side is that if a lawyer really does his or her job they will first check out the experts resumes... which is always given before they testify... seems 'some folks' like to embellish their education and expertise.... all the defense lawyer has to do is point out the 'lies' on the experts resume.


My Native American Name:
"Runs with Scissors"
 
Posts: 4441 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not a big revelation. Courtroom "experts" are a dime a dozen. In the mid-80's, I was certified by a judge in a legal action as an expert on personal computers. I almost laughed when the judge said it. Yes, I have built PC's. That's about as hard as setting up a Christmas tree.
 
Posts: 17323 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
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quote:
Originally posted by Lt CHEG:

I looked but didn’t see a name Para. Do you have this witness’s name? I wonder if I know of him, and if he had a decent reputation when I was working there?


Click the twitter post, once there you will see a link which shows the actual written report by the expert and his name is James Yurgealitis.

Link
 
Posts: 24667 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Cookster:
Maybe this former ATF agent was inspired by the article written by none other than Gersh "AR-15" Kuntzman himself.

From Kuntzman's Daily News article back in 07-2014 -




Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he a member here?
Wait.... It's his brother, Douche Kuntzman!

I think he posted a few times in the Chinese weather/spy balloon thread.


______________________________________________________________________
"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 8658 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of dsiets
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^^^ That's what I was wondering. He might be more of a cousin to Doosh Klitman.
 
Posts: 7541 | Location: MI | Registered: May 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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