quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
I have watched every video on YouTube available. You have to be a special kind of retard to buy one of these things, 50k for a depreciating asset that cant tow more than 100 miles, hard pass. Buy a used truck, take the leftovers and buy an NFA gun.

^^ THIS ^^

Or even better keep the truck you have. I understand someone buying if their truck is totaled or stolen, but I've been shocked by the number people buying in a overpriced market the last 2.5 years. Add-in the rapid rise in interest rates and it makes even less sense buying an overpriced vehicle.

Used cars prices are coming down, and I'm seeing more and more inventory on new car lots so I'd expect new to come down too.

Absolutely. Putting out a battery fire is extremely difficult as well.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Just wait until an electric bus catches fire with little children in it.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I've seen a couple & the local dealer has one on their lot (XLT I think) for something like 97k

It’s nice though

quote:

Originally posted by wishfull thinker:
From the Ford site, it looks like its priced at the lower end of the more expensive trucks.

Lightening..56,000

Lariat... 57,400

King Ranch.63,000

Platinum...64,000

Raptor. 76,775

Limited... 84,900

Im not sure where those prices came from but when you go to Ford and build a Lightening they are much worse.

XLT starts at 63k with extended range battery its 80k
Lariat starts at 74k with extended battery its 85k
Platinum starts at 96k

The 59k Pro Lightening is only available for fleet use and is next to impossible for the general public to buy.

Those prices are before dealer markups.

I was on a Ford Lightening forum and a guy paid a $45,000 dealer markup to buy one off the lot without have a preorder reservation. He paid $130,000 for a Ford truck

I understood those prices to be for the base gasoline powered versions of the F150 in comparison with the Lightning base price listed first.

I paid $45k out-the-door for my 2017 Lariat that I special ordered exactly how I wanted from the factory and was able to watch it being built by checking the VIN online.

I felt I was paying too much then, but figured I had the chance to finally buy a brand new truck the way I wanted it and probably wouldn't get the chance to do so for a while after that. I'm glad that I did. I cannot imagine paying over $50k for a vehicle.

We have a friend with an EV Nissan Leaf. Like any battery, it has degraded overtime. The cost of a new battery is more than the car is worth. I have a feeling in a few years we are going to have a lot of sad EV owners and an ecological disaster created by a surplus of old batteries.

quote:

Originally posted by mcrimm:
My EV is a Club Car golf cart. That's enough planet friendly for me.

For God's sake, when it decides to become a golf torch, don't push it onto the fairway. They'll hang you for messing up their game.

The car companies did away with the big rear wheel drive cars. A lot of people wanting one just switched over to the 4 door pickup. Once the car companies figured this out, the refinement of the pickup from utilitarian to luxury transportation began. And prices went up accordingly. I just took a quick tour of my local Dodge Ram dealer. I dont think I saw a single truck that was less than 50K.
All were ICE, no EVs to be seen.

But yeah, If you pay $117,000.00 you get to say 'frunk'.

As in 'Frunk that!'

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
The car companies did away with the big rear wheel drive cars. A lot of people wanting one just switched over to the 4 door pickup. Once the car companies figured this out, the refinement of the pickup from utilitarian to luxury transportation began. And prices went up accordingly. <snip>

I agree 100%. You can still by basic trucks though; $34k for a regular cab F150 long bed and a V6 or same truck with a V8 for $36k.

These prices are insane. If I needed a truck I would buy used.

^^^
Even used truck prices are insane right now, but far better than new if you can find the right deal. Private sales are likely the best route as used dealer prices are nuts.

I'm guessing pricing has temporarily plateaued, Interest rates have been going up and it's pushing car/truck loan payments so high that customers can't afford them.

I doubt prices will go back down, but they may hold at current levels for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
I have watched every video on YouTube available. You have to be a special kind of retard to buy one of these things, 50k for a depreciating asset that cant tow more than 100 miles, hard pass. Buy a used truck, take the leftovers and buy an NFA gun.

As I type this Mrs DF and I are cruising at 80 mph in our GMC Duramax on our way to our property in Tennessee. While an electric truck was never a consideration, I chose to buy a used but well maintained truck rather than spend 60,000.00+ on a new one. Cost of truck and some improvements and upgrades I am 30,000.00 into it. Gets better mpg than my Tundra does, tons of power and range and it didn’t break the bank. Probably won’t buy an NFA gun but the remainder will help buy a tractor and implements

From a zero hedge article today:

https://www.zerohedge.com/mark...-trigger-auto-market

FTA:

This morning I discovered something *extremely* alarming happening in the car market, specifically in auto lending. I'm now convinced that there is a massive wave of car repossessions coming in 2023.

Here's what I discovered (and what no one knows):

Background:

Over the past 2 years, many people took out exorbitant loans on cars. Car values were inflated (and frankly, still are to some extent). But many people simply had no choice and bought an overpriced a car.

Well...

Car valuations are now plummeting. Some cars have declined in value as much as 30% y/y. And these same people that took out these big loans are now "underwater".

Basically, they owe banks more on these cars than they are worth. And the banks are well-aware of this...

But there is no easy solution. You can't just put the genie back in the bottle. This brings me to what happened this morning:

Every Friday I conduct a team meeting to recap our week.

This morning, one of our General Managers opened up DealerTrack — a portal that dealers use to communicate with auto lenders — and highlighted something very concerning:

9 of our lending partners have started WAIVING "open auto stipulations" for consumers.

Wait, wtf does that even mean?

Let me explain using a simple, hypothetical scenario:

1) Consumer takes out an auto loan in 2020/2021 on an overvalued car

2) 2022 comes around and that overvalued car is now rapidly declining in value

3) With the car declining in value, consumer now owes more on the car than it is worth

4) Consumer no longer wants the car. Maybe they outgrew it. Or maybe it keeps breaking. So consumer wants to trade it in.

5) But dealer can't trade the car in because the consumer owes WAY too much on it. So dealer asks consumer for lots of money down to cover the difference.

6) But of course, the consumer doesn't have $1,000s to cover the difference between what they owe on the car and what it's worth. And here comes the perfect storm...

7) Dealer can't sell consumer a car, Consumer can't buy a car, And, you guessed it, lender can't finance a car! Everybody loses! Oh no. So what happens next?

8) Lender knows that most consumers are stuck in this situation, and does the following:

WAIVES THE OPEN AUTO STIPULATION.

Meaning, the lender lets the consumer buy the car KNOWING that they already have an open auto loan with another bank!

Why the f*ck would they do this?

Surely the lender knows that consumers that take out a 2nd auto loan are MUCH riskier and have a MUCH high risk of default? Right? RIGHT?

Yes, but the lender does it because they know that the consumer will default on the other car !!!!

Dog eat dog style.

Let me be clear: This is NOT normal.

But it's the only way lenders can finance cars and dealers can put cars on the road.

And the implications of this will be tons of repossessions.

I've been a doubter, but after what I saw this morning, I'm now FULLY convinced that a wave of car repossessions will hit in early/mid 2023. If lenders are willing to backstab each other in order to put more loans on the road, we're in trouble.

This will not end pretty.

After 2years of looking a F250 diesels we finally found one that we thought was worth the price. I posted in another thread, 2016 Lariat with 27k miles and we were out the door at $50k and they gave me $34k for my 4Runner with 65k on it. Come to find out clean 4Runners are more rare then clean low mileage F250’s. A comparable new F250 is $85k.

quote:

Originally posted by Valpo Fz:
and they gave me $34k for my 4Runner with 65k on it. Come to find out clean 4Runners are more rare then clean low mileage F250’s.

It's been a little bit since I was researching, but the last time I looked, Toyota 4Runners were at the top of their class for maintaining their resale value.

Same with Toyota Tundras and Tacomas.

I paid $54k even out the door for my brand new 2015 Lariet F350 in 2016. Except for taller spacers between the axle and springs in the back, it’s the same truck Valpo paid $50k out the door for 6 years later with 27,000 miles. That seems like a vehicle that holds its value.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
Gents, how many of us are astonished at the cost of a new vehicle, EV or not?

$56k is roughly twice the remaining balance on my mortgage.

How do people manage a $2k mortgage payment, a $1k per month car payment, and $1k for medical insurance?

Two income white collar professionals. That's the only way I've seen work. Or of course practicing professionals law or medicine etc. Or best of all successful business owners, but that's a hell of a commitment and they deserve whatever they make if they're honest people. I'm in the first group but only single income couple, so I'm always walking uphill, and yes it's tough and often stressful. Back in the day a solid tech or tradesman was sufficient income for a family. Unfortunately those days are long gone. It's unfortunate because that's the model I based my early life on and it failed in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Just wait until an electric bus catches fire with little children in it.

Never thought of that. A matter of time given the nature of that technology. When it happens progressives and media talking shitheads will of course ignore it.