Are these acceptable to augment the door?

https://www.amazon.com/Defende...7Y/ref=sr_1_2?sr=8-2

I don’t know how force-resistant that device is, but I’ve seen them in use in a couple of places and they seem strong. Like the earlier mention of a “high deadbolt,” I’ve seen these mounted high — about 2/3 of the distance between the knob and the top of the door.

I’d be tempted to mount it low, instead, to resist kicking. Heck, at that price, maybe one low and one high.

My goofy thought on it one afternoon was, “what if I conk completely out and someone comes to help me? A trusted friend with a key will get the locks open, but that thing is still going to impede them getting in.”

We take chances on both sides of things….

I have a combination of Schlage, Kwikset Titan, and Emtek electronic locks on my homes and airplane hangar. Obviously I can get any ASSA ABLOY lock at a substantial employee discount, but the Schlage Grade 1/AAA locks are plenty good enough.

I use Medeco padlocks exclusively.

No way would I have a pure electronic lock without a keyed override, but that's just me.

aileron

I thought about making a 4x4 to fit under the door knob and the other end against the bottom stairstep.
But my door frame is crap, So I've got a 12 gauge coachgun with 00 buck!

I give up. I can't figure what part number to look for Abloy or Medeco products. I can't figure out what sku # would be associated with the model / configuration I want. And on top of that, I can't find a dealer w/in 100 miles that might sell something close to what I want. And of course I can't find an online dealer either.

Shame - good product but impossible to buy at any price.

I'm going to just stick w/ Schlage.

quote:

Originally posted by aileron:
I have a combination of Schlage, Kwikset Titan, and Emtek electronic locks on my homes and airplane hangar. Obviously I can get any ASSA ABLOY lock at a substantial employee discount, but the Schlage Grade 1/AAA locks are plenty good enough.

I use Medeco padlocks exclusively.

No way would I have a pure electronic lock without a keyed override, but that's just me.

aileron

Hey since you work there, could you get them to make a electronic (inet connected) lock with high security keys (pick/bump resistant) that is Apple HomeKit and Matter compatible that fits on those nifty euro-multipoint latched doors?

The doors are super cool and supposedly stronger than ours (as instead of adding another deadbolt or garbage add-ons they already have 3+ latch points) but they don’t work with any decent pushbutton electronic locks that have any connectivity in them. I want to see lock status even when I’m away from home, lock them if the dog sitter left the back door totally freaking unlocked (yes, she did), and be able to add/remove codes and audit access logs.

Partner with a door maker with national distribution, or a few regional makers, and profit. Apple-tards like our Apple ecosystem.

Help. I was looking into the currently installed deadbolt and I found that of the two screws for the strike plate, one is 3" but the other is short.

I'm trying to replace the short one with a longer 3" screw (I have some left over from other Schlage locks (3" w/ I think some dark coating, perhaps corrosion resistant).

I drilled a 1/8" pilot home into the frame. But I can only get the new screw in about halfway. Then it's becomes extremely hard to turn the screw. I'm starting to strip the head.

Help? It's a 3" screw w/ I think a 1/8" shaft. I used a 1/8" drill bit.

I can't get the screw into the wood frame.

I have some Grip Rite drywall and Gold Coarse (general purpose?) screws. The threading seem a little coarser than the Schlage screws. Would that work if it screws in easier?

Help?

ETA: at least for now, I decided to use the Grip Rite Gold Coarse screw (zinc coating). It was still a bit tough but it went in all the way. The Schlage screw (w/ a bit finer thread but still coarse) was impossible to drive in.

I’m the type that would improvise, do what it takes to get the fasteners to hold tight. As long as the screws aren’t hitting a hard stop, should be a type you can use, after all, they have fasteners for concrete.

Back to the deadbolt debate, it’s part of the ‘layered defense’. Kinda like a gun safe, if someone has know how, tools, & time, they can get inside. I’m not sure it’s worth it to spend a lot of time with deadbolts if the patio glass door is right near with chairs ready as breacher tools.

Thanks. I'll assume the Grip Rite screw is fine for now unless someone says otherwise. It might be permanent unless I replace w/ a Schlage keyless or Schlage B660P. I'm also looking at the Medeco Maxum 4 (I think I found a local dealer). I've given up on the Abloy Protec2 (sounds good but I still can't figure out what sku # and where to buy).

Agree w/ they weak link and layers. I've got some layers. I'm just uncomfortable w/ the grade 2 Weiser - subject to picking and bumping.

If someone is getting inside, I want them to break something. Not get in by doing a quiet deadbolt bump. That's too easy. Either he's fully committed to break something to enter or he'll go to another easier house.

I wouldn't even consider using Abloy (not ASSA ABLOY) or Mul-T-Lock products on a US residential application. Medeco yes, if you can find a MSC dealer or a locksmith to work with. For residential try Level (new Bay Area ASSA ABLOY acquisition), Kwikset/Baldwin/(Weiser if you are in Canada) are all recent ASSA ABLOY acquisitions, or Schlage (Allegion). Emtek, which was an ASSA ABLOY company until recently but was divested by order of DOJ to allow acquisition of Kwikset/Baldwin is a good resi lock too.

I really appreciate the benefits of your expert industry insights.

Dumb question: why wouldn't you consider something like the Protec2 (Abloy?) for a US residential application? Or maybe you would and I'm confused with the nuances of Abloy vs Assa Abloy and other brands). It seems like overkill perhaps for me (especially at about $600). But seems like a good lock.

That being said, I think the Medeco Maxum 4 is sufficiently robust (not sure about price yet, I'm guessing about $400). And may be more readily available - need to call a local MSC locksmith next week to confirm availability. I'll look up Emtek.

Still researching keyway options (6 vs 7 pin, Everest (probably sufficient) vs Primus keyways, etc).

quote:

Originally posted by aileron:
I wouldn't even consider using Abloy (not ASSA ABLOY) or Mul-T-Lock products on a US residential application...

Curious why not? Had the Mul-T-Locks on two previous homes without issue and looking for new locks on our new home.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by aileron:
I wouldn't even consider using Abloy (not ASSA ABLOY) or Mul-T-Lock products on a US residential application...

Curious why not? Had the Mul-T-Locks on two previous homes without issue and looking for new locks on our new home.

Mul-T-Lock is an Israeli product, and as such was designed for their door and frame construction. Abloy is a Finnish product, similar design criteria. Mul-T-Lock falls under ASSA ABLOY Americas High Security and Aftermarket division, which is managed by Medeco - same with Abloy. You can certainly 'force fit' the Israeli and Finnish locks into US residential, but the foreign products brought in to the States are generally oriented to commercial and industrial applications. Most of this does not apply to NYC, as they have some oddball resi and multifamily buildings.

Someone asked about electronic locks for the European multi-point doors. ASSA ABLOY makes these in Europe, but doesn't bring them into the US *yet*. As US door manufacturers begin to adopt thermally broken multi-point construction they are looking for locks with not only wireless electronics, but key override using conventional US mortice cylinders, not European profile cylinders (the ones that look like keyholes and require two full turns to lock)

Again, for most people products CERTIFIED by third parties (ie, UL and ITS) to ANSI/BHMA A156.39 lockset and ANSI/BHMA A156.40 deadbolt with A-A-A ratings are pretty damn good. Manufacturers have their products tested annually by third parties and pay BHMA to re-certify annually for a reason - to allow people like us to ignore internet BS about locks, and deal with proven performance. If locks meet the highest ANSI/BHMA standards they're gonna work fine and last a long time. My employer would want me to pitch ASSA ABLOY brands, but others are great too.

Thank you. I don’t recall the locksmith having force fit the Mul-T-Lock deadbolts at either house. I really like the ball bearings at the end of the deadbolt that latch into the cup in the frame or other door. The Medeco locks didn’t have that at the time. The doors and frames at the new house are 200mph rated with impact glass.

Yes, thank you for shedding some additional light. It's not obvious, at least to a novice, just by reading the website that there may be fit incompatibilities.

I'll stick w/ Medeco - I found a local source who can order them (given the many variations, it's not something they typically stock). Sounds like the lead time is about 2 months though; I would have assumed that various combinations are in inventory at the factory and should be able to assemble one quickly (w/in a week).

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I have a bunch of the Mul-T-Locks. The ones with a removable key on the inside which get removed when we leave on vacation or for the summer. That way if someone breaks in through a window, they still have break through the door to get the big stuff out.

BTW, just fyi: Medeco Maxum deadbolts allow for this as well - features is called Captive Thumbturn.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Thank you. I don’t recall the locksmith having force fit the Mul-T-Lock deadbolts at either house. I really like the ball bearings at the end of the deadbolt that latch into the cup in the frame or other door. The Medeco locks didn’t have that at the time. The doors and frames at the new house are 200mph rated with impact glass.

Living in SW FL you're a good candidate for what are known as Missile E door systems. Independent and certified NRTL test the door/lock assembly & receive a NOA (notice of acceptance) by Miami-Dade. Test: Involves firing a 9-pound, 2x4 wood plank at 80 feet per second (ft/s) at about 8 different locations on the door. If the door pops opens or the 9# 2x4 penetrates the door or frame...fail. If the door survives 7 hits at 80fps but is compromised or pops open on the 8th impact...fail. I spent a week at a major storefront OEM doing Missile E testing to get one of our brands panic exit devices to pass. We finally have a Missile E solution; but it was a bitch.

80fps = about 60 mph. A 9# 2x4 hitting a door endwise puts a hell of a lot of energy into the door and frame vis the lock and hinges.

Very, very few door/lock assemblies are Missile E rated, and have to be installed as an assembly; no mix and match. The glass (if installed in the door) and windows need to be rated above 180mph for air and winter intrusion, with the Missile E certification an add-on. Usually these are used exclusively on essential facilities, and include hospitals, police stations and the like...but we have done some specials for high-end residences under Miami Dade jurisdiction.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: aileron,

Yeah, mine are only Level D: 9 pound 2x4 shot out of an air cannon at 34mph. Where as Level E is a 9 pound 2x4 shot out of an air cannon at 55mph. Fortunately, in 25 years of living here I have yet to see a 2x4 traveling more than 5mph that wasn’t in the back of a pickup truck. Hurricane Charley did take a 10x12 roof from someone else’s shed and punch it into the side of a small house we own. 5v metal roof, 1/2 swathing, 2x6 rafters right into the side of the 800sqft house. Luckily, it was where the additional was put on. The original 1926 house was 400sqft and the original owner’s added another 400sqft in the 1950s. There was a wall on the inside perpendicular to the 40’ wall. The force moved the whole house 2” on the concrete blocks holding it up.