I am looking for any information that will help me decide what to do, and tell me what to expect.

I'm not a Dr, and probably not the one to ask. My father's Dr insisted on Cryo and he went along with it and died a year later. If he had just taken it out he would still be alive today.

Well, that's not encouraging.

I'm a Dr. and had prostate CA 14 years ago. What is salvage cryotherapy?

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:
I'm a Dr. and had prostate CA 14 years ago. What is salvage cryotherapy?

Short answer: Kill it with cold. Freeze the cancer.

Longer answer: Back in 2010 I had the radiation series, forty-some zap sessions. Prior to the radiation, my PSA had hit 27 (not a typo, that's twenty-seven). After a couple months of daily (Monday - Friday) radiation treatments at Orlando Cancer Institute, PSA was down to 0.30.

Over the intervening seven years, PSA has been slowly creeping up again; last reading was 1.20 and new blood work is scheduled in December, so we'll see what it is.

Urology doc could not do an MRI due to the reinforcing metal in my hip / thigh, so we did another biopsy. Twelve sections, the lower four showed returning cancer.

I will be 81 in a few weeks, he does not want to do surgery. He said the options are hormone therapy, which at best will hold it in check, or salvage cryotherapy, freezing it (I believe he said Argon gas is injected via probes). He says that freezing will kill the cancer. He said the process takes maybe hour and a half, two hours, general anesthesia.

He does not do this procedure himself, he is a surgery guy, he is making a referral to a colleague who does it.

I have not been advised yet re schedule for initial consult with cryotherapy doc. I was asking here, to see if I could get any advance information from a doc, or maybe from somebody who has been through this. I did Google, but I wanted to see if somebody could speak plain understandable English to me.

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:
I'm a Dr. and had prostate CA 14 years ago.

What is prostate CA?

quote:

Originally posted by Ripley:

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:
I'm a Dr. and had prostate CA 14 years ago.

What is prostate CA?

Prostate cancer.

I have been told that all men will get it, if they live long enough. Don't know whether that's true.

I'm 75 and had similar situation to a point. Had surgery after positive biopsies and a PSA of 7.6 in 2003. Specimen showed positive margin and PSA began to creep up. When it reached 1.6, I started radiation therapy. Had 37 sessions in 2004. PSA has been undetectable since then. Have not kept up on more recent therapies such as you describe. Sounds like you are in good hands but second opinions can't hurt although make sure they are from cancer centers. As you said, you need input from someone who has had the procedure. Perhaps the doc doing it can put you in touch with other patients of his. Assuming the side effects are not bad, seems like you could do the cryo first and use hormones as a back-up. At your age and with your life expectancy, either would do fine but to paraphrase my late father, 81 years seems like a long time to live...unless you're 80.
Best of luck to you.

V Tail, My brother in law had the freezing I believe. I'll check with him.
I had mine out 1 year ago Dec. 15. I chose surgery because of my age. I'm 62..
Surgery probably not an option for you due to your age and prior radiation.
I'll let you know what my brother in law says.
P.S. my wife and I were in the Practical Fundamentals class with you in Orlando in 2010.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by Ripley:

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:
I'm a Dr. and had prostate CA 14 years ago.

What is prostate CA?

Prostate cancer.

I have been told that all men will get it, if they live long enough. Don't know whether that's true.

Before she switched gears and became a nurse, Mrs.BurtonRW was a cancer researcher - prostate specifically.

I remember her talking about that. It’s true.

I know nothing about this cryo business, but I wish you a long(er), healthy life, brother.

-Rob

Next door neighbor had this. He is 77. Couple of hours in the Cysto suite, a week with a Foley and bag and his PSA now is 0.2.

Good outcome in his case. and I suspect yours will be as well.

Good luck.

RMD

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:
I'm 75 and had similar situation to a point. Had surgery after positive biopsies and a PSA of 7.6 in 2003. Specimen showed positive margin and PSA began to creep up. When it reached 1.6, I started radiation therapy. Had 37 sessions in 2004. PSA has been undetectable since then. Have not kept up on more recent therapies such as you describe. Sounds like you are in good hands but second opinions can't hurt although make sure they are from cancer centers. As you said, you need input from someone who has had the procedure. Perhaps the doc doing it can put you in touch with other patients of his. Assuming the side effects are not bad, seems like you could do the cryo first and use hormones as a back-up. At your age and with your life expectancy, either would do fine but to paraphrase my late father, 81 years seems like a long time to live...unless you're 80.
Best of luck to you.

Prior to start of radiation, I had one shot of hormone -- Lupron. One of the published side effects is "unusual changes in mood or behavior (crying spells, anger, feeling irritable."

I had that, big time. Sudden outbursts of intense anger. Mood swings. Really bad.

After the radiation, the oncologist wanted me to continue Lupron every four months, forever. I declined, not wanting to live with that particular side effect.

The statistics quoted to me were, five years after radiation, 78% of prostate cancer patients were still cancer-free with the Lupron treatment. Without it, 62% were cancer-free. At 78% vs 62%, the Lupron was a maybe advantage, but the horrible side effect that I had experienced was 100% likely, so I elected not to do it.

Urology doc did not try to talk me out of my decision, saying that quality of life was a big factor in a person's decision.

Having experienced this, I will consider the hormone only as an absolute last resort. This, and the fact that the urology doc indicated that Salvage Cryotherapy is likely to be more effective than hormone.

He said that we can not do radiation again: that's a once in a lifetime treatment. Other than the hormone, he did not say anything about any sort of chemo. I'm wondering if there is any option there. I am scheduled to see my Primary Care guy this coming month for periodic once-over, I'll see if he has anything to say.

As for all men getting it, that's what they told us in med school back in the sixties and added that the reality was that most men died of something else, before the prostate cancer got them. Problem is that, since I was in med school, our life expectancy has increased significantly as evidenced by the OP.

Sorry, my reply was in regard to kindey cancer.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:
As for all men getting it, that's what they told us in med school back in the sixties and added that the reality was that most men died of something else, before the prostate cancer got them. Problem is that, since I was in med school, our life expectancy has increased significantly as evidenced by the OP.

Yeah, I think that this view still holds. Given enough time, all men develop Prostate CA. Not all is detected in men and many never knew they had it at the time of death from other causes.

V Tail: Talk to the consult urologist and ask every question you have.

RMD

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:
V Tail: Talk to the consult urologist and ask every question you have.

Yes, I certainly intend to do that. My regular urologist is handing this off to a cryotherapy colleague and I'm waiting for the initial appointment to be scheduled.

Meantime, I want to pick up as much information as I can, maybe get different viewpoints, hence my inquiry here. I figured that with as many members as we have, odds are decent that we either have a doc who is familiar with this, or a member who has been through it as a patient.

You might find this article of interest: LINK

The University Of California, San Francisco Medical Center has a developed program for ablation (cryosurgery) therapies for cancer.

If you search for "UCSF ablation radiology" you will find information. Dr. Carroll from the above article is still there but other people within the hospital are now doing the procedures.

I have been told that the cryotherapy/ablation approach can be as successful as older therapy choices.

I am not a doctor but have been in the process of learning about such therapy but for kidney cancer.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by Ripley:

quote:

Originally posted by NK402:
I'm a Dr. and had prostate CA 14 years ago.

What is prostate CA?

Prostate cancer.

I have been told that all men will get it, if they live long enough. Don't know whether that's true.

I've heard that too.

Had my prostate popped out the first of November, I'm 68. A previous TURP procedure left a prostatectomy as my only option.

Had the nerve sparing surgery, indications are things might still function. I knew to expect incontinence, two weeks after the catheter was pulled, still struggling mightily. Gonna take a while I guess.

V-Tail - You might also want to visit healingwell.com and check the Prostate Ca section. Lots of discussion regarding procedures, results etc. It helped me a great deal when I was diagnosed in 2010.

Sorry, I have no medical advice to offer but I can tell you that the first thing I would want to know is what is the downside (after effects) of this procedure? That would guide me in my decision.

Good luck my friend and please keep us posted.