http://www.sfchronicle.com/cri...s-swarm-11094745.php

A recent string of robberies on BART trains took a frightening turn when dozens of juveniles swarmed an Oakland station over the weekend and commandeered a train car, forcing passengers to hand over bags and cell phones and leaving at least two with head injuries, witnesses told the transit agency.

The incident — the first of its kind in recent memory — occurred around 9:30 p.m. Saturday at Coliseum Station.

According to a police officials, witnesses said 40 to 60 juveniles flooded the station, jumped the fare gates and rushed to the second-story train platform. Some of the robbers apparently held open the doors of a Dublin-bound train car while others streamed inside, confronting and robbing and in some cases beating riders.

The juveniles “committed multiple strong-arm robberies of bags and cell phones,” said a police summary prepared after the incident. “At least two victims suffered head/facial injuries requiring medical attention.”

Alicia Trost, a BART spokeswoman, said Monday that seven robberies had occurred — with victims losing a purse, a duffel bag and five phones. Six people were robbed inside the train car, with a seventh confronted on the platform, she said.

The attack was quick, police reported, and the teenagers were able to retreat from the station and vanish into the surrounding East Oakland neighborhood before BART officers could respond. The train that was hit was held for about 15 minutes as authorities investigated the crime and tended to the injured.

“We are in the process of pulling all surveillance video and we will share with Oakland police, Oakland Unified School District and Oakland Housing Authority to see if they can help identify the minors,” Trost said. “We have had success with sharing images of juveniles with this group and identifying and making arrests in the past.”

The images cannot be shared publicly, she said, because the suspects appear to be minors.

BART is also checking with Oakland police to see if any other incidents Saturday night — such as a big house party being broken up — might shed light on the identity of the suspects.

A series of robberies on BART trains in recent weeks has prompted the agency to increase patrols — though this was apparently the first takeover-style heist.

The incident is likely to present a challenge for BART, which hired a new police chief last week. The agency has struggled to contain fare evaders, and is in the midst of installing surveillance cameras in train cars after The Chronicle reported that most of the existing cameras were decoys.

And this probably wouldn't happen in a state with CCW holders.

Well , maybe once.

GGF

Do that when I'm traveling on a train with my wife and daughter--and I'm in a state where I can carry--I won't even take two seconds to think about it before I start ventilating said undesirables.

Have you been in commuter/subway trains much? Start shooting in a commuter train, and the chances of NOT hitting a bystander are pretty to very low. There's pretty much no way of lining u a shot where bystanders won't be in the foreground and/or background, especially at peak times.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do that when I'm traveling on a train with my wife and daughter--and I'm in a state where I can carry--I won't even take two seconds to think about it before I start ventilating said undesirables.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do that when I'm traveling on a train with my wife and daughter--and I'm in a state where I can carry--I won't even take two seconds to think about it before I start ventilating said undesirables.

Be sure to carry a couple of spare mags. You probably only need to killify 30% of a crowd of yoofs and the rest of the cucarachas will scatter, but it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

One might not have to shoot to get the desired result from these kids.....or not. If I was on that train and that happened to me, and mine, I would let them know that I was prepared to do some damage to some of them.

They do this once and get away with it, they will do it again.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Have you been in commuter/subway trains much? Start shooting in a commuter train, and the chances of NOT hitting a bystander are pretty to very low. There's pretty much no way of lining u a shot where bystanders won't be in the foreground and/or background, especially at peak times.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do that when I'm traveling on a train with my wife and daughter--and I'm in a state where I can carry--I won't even take two seconds to think about it before I start ventilating said undesirables.

So, just let them thugs rob and beat you up?

That is the stop for the Oakland airport as well as the Raiders stadium and the Oracle Center where the Warriors play. My wife and I took the same train to and from that same station last week when we spent the weekend in San Francisco.....damn, scary.

Just going to open fire in a mixed crowd of attackers, victims, and bystanders and assume that you wont miss and no rounds will pass through the intended targets hitting others?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Have you been in commuter/subway trains much? Start shooting in a commuter train, and the chances of NOT hitting a bystander are pretty to very low. There's pretty much no way of lining u a shot where bystanders won't be in the foreground and/or background, especially at peak times.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do that when I'm traveling on a train with my wife and daughter--and I'm in a state where I can carry--I won't even take two seconds to think about it before I start ventilating said undesirables.

So, just let them thugs rob and beat you up?

And also risk them taking your weapon...yeah, no thanks.

Play the hand your are dealt, but make sure you carry that ace up your sleeve.

40-60 perps and only 7 people robbed?

And, not a single person resisted or fought back?

No one with balls at 9:30 on a Saturday night?

Maybe most passengers were going home from the knitting convention.

This is an interesting scenario. Confined space, packed with innocents, victims, and attackers. Attackers are operating with a mob mentality. Several could be armed as well and not afraid to fire into a crowd if threatened

What do you do? What do you do?

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Have you been in commuter/subway trains much? Start shooting in a commuter train, and the chances of NOT hitting a bystander are pretty to very low. There's pretty much no way of lining u a shot where bystanders won't be in the foreground and/or background, especially at peak times.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do that when I'm traveling on a train with my wife and daughter--and I'm in a state where I can carry--I won't even take two seconds to think about it before I start ventilating said undesirables.

I wouldn't start shooting wildly inside of a train car like I just jumped out of a bathroom in Pulp Fiction. I'd stay tight with my family, and if one of those cockroaches dared tried to lay a hand on me or mine...well, someone better call ServPro because I'm about to make a Jackson Pollock with that thug.

These trains were not likely packed as you imagine. Little airport traffic at that time and if no basketball game there may have only been a handful of people on the car they jumped on.

You can't just shoot the robbers. They're underage! Think of the public outcry if one or a dozen were to die. And there goes the cure for cancer they were working on, and the future ministers. Plus, who's going to carry aunt Bessies groceries?

The one poster who suggested extra magazines probably hasn't considered belt fed. It might be a better option.

Sooner or later we need to get to the conclusion that we'll eventually get to the point where the urban warriors need to be kept in check. Or killified.

So I assume you are neither a husband nor a father.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Have you been in commuter/subway trains much? Start shooting in a commuter train, and the chances of NOT hitting a bystander are pretty to very low. There's pretty much no way of lining u a shot where bystanders won't be in the foreground and/or background, especially at peak times.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do that when I'm traveling on a train with my wife and daughter--and I'm in a state where I can carry--I won't even take two seconds to think about it before I start ventilating said undesirables.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
This is an interesting scenario. Confined space, packed with innocents, victims, and attackers. Attackers are operating with a mob mentality. Several could be armed as well and not afraid to fire into a crowd if threatened

What do you do? What do you do?

It's a hard choice for sure. Personally, I am not willing to kill to keep stuff. Take it and leave. But don't touch me nor mine. Make yourself a threat and there will be some gun fire. Of course, being confined I wouldn't want anyone near me close enough to take stuff because the threat is too present that way. I would be compelled to fire sooner before anyone could take stuff. This is what makes the decision to fire or not so difficult. Confinement leverages the threat. I'm with Alan on this. Don't approach us.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:
40-60 perps and only 7 people robbed?

And, not a single person resisted or fought back?

No one with balls at 9:30 on a Saturday night?

Maybe most passengers were going home from the knitting convention.

7 vs 40 doesn't sound like good odds.

Awesome! No, I shouldn't say that. It wasn't awesome when something like that happened to me as a kid. Sure, it sucks for them right now but the silver lining is that there's a bunch of people on that train that just got an eye-opening education in real life.....as well as the ABSOLUTE importance of self-defense.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Awesome! No, I shouldn't say that. It wasn't awesome when something like that happened to me as a kid. Sure, it sucks for them right now but the silver lining is that there's a bunch of people on that train that just got an eye-opening education in real life.....as well as the ABSOLUTE importance of self-defense.

I got surrounded and robbed walking from an arcade to my grandparent's house when I was 12 or 13. It certainly was educational.