quote:

The Feds will dump 10,000 Syrian "refugees" in Baltimore.

They will feel right at home.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

If you can't see this is a case of over charging to pander to a rioting mob, then you will never see it.

Innocent people face criminal charges every day in this nation. It's a shame that it happens, but it is what it is.

If the prosecutor doesn't have the evidence to back up their charges, then those accused should be found not guilty. No?

A lot of you guys are complaining about "what might be" instead of "what is". You may be right. Maybe not. There's only one way to know, and that's to let our system work. Then if you're right, you can complain, and I'll complain along with you. If you're wrong, you've wasted a lot of time complaining for no reason.

Patience. It's a virtue, or so I'm told.

Forgive me, but 'no', I'm not complaining about "what might be". I'm complaining about a state attorney that 'is'...

1 - Monumentally incompetent and unqualified to do the job she is charged with.
2 - A huge political climber.
3 - A woman more geared to placating the mob than seeking justice.

Those three things are abundantly evident based upon everything we've seen to date come from Mosby's office or her own mouth. All of that leads me to believe she is unfit to try this case, and that the venue has so been poisoned by Ms. Mosby, her team, and the retard three named mayor, that its simply inappropriate to conduct the trial there. Move the venue and put someone in charge to prosecute the trials who has a clue, and maybe, just maybe, we could get to the bottom of what really happened. With Mosby at the helm, that will never happen.

Ultimately, are the cops guilty of anything? Like I noted before, we'll likely never know, because in Mosby's rush to charge and prosecute, she's hung charges on the officers that will never stick. Could she have perhaps gotten convictions on 'appropriate' charges given the circumstances? Maybe, but like I noted, we'll never know.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20150928-story.html

Prosecutors and defense attorneys in the Freddie Gray case are set to return to court Tuesday for a scheduling hearing, signaling a possible postponement of the first trial date.


A trial date for Officer William Porter has tentatively been set for Oct. 13.

That hearing is set for 2 p.m. Tuesday

http://www.usatoday.com/story/...ray-trials/73020612/

First trial delayed till 30 Nov.

Prosecutors have said Porter will be a key witness in the trials of other officers and should be tried first. The other officers will be tried in 2016.

Baltimore defense attorney Jason Ott isn't involved in the case, but he says the pressure is on the prosecution team.

"You know what will happen to this city if they don't get convictions," Ott told USA TODAY, citing violent protests the city already has endured. "They need that magical word of guilty."

But Ott said proving criminal intent could be a major obstacle to conviction.

"A terrible thing happened, and the city is responsible, but it's not a criminal case ," Ott said.

Roya Hanna, a former Baltimore prosecutor, agreed. Now a defense lawyer but not representing any of the officers, she said the investigation appeared rushed.

"From a political standpoint, it's absolutely understandable," she said. "And whatever happens, police are more prepared (for protests)."

Ott says it could take thousands of jury candidates to build impartial juries for six trials. Jurors will know that violence could erupt if they fail to convict, he added.

"That has to be weighing on your mind as a juror," he said. "The truth is, this case isn't just about the Baltimore six. It's about the aftermath."

**************************

The last part is reason enough to move the trials. The judge is being a real ass. No matter how "fair" a Baltimore juror tries to be, they would know a verdict of innocent will send the city into riot. The jurors would also fear retaliation for a not guilty verdict.

The inner city community is constantly threatened by gangs and criminals. The city only has a murder clearance rate of about 35 %. Prosecutors say the big problem is that citizens are afraid to testify.

Remember this is a city where until very recently, black gangs ran the city jail.

adding:

Following Porter's trial beginning Nov 30, Goodson's trial will begin Jan. 6; White on Jan. 25; Miller on Feb. 9; Nero on Feb. 22; Rice on March 9.

Williams cited the state's need to try the officers in a specific order as his reason for granting the postponements over defense's objections.

This is just a Kangaroo Court. They might as well convene a firing squad now...

Defense points to new Freddie Gray evidence in calling for sanctions against prosecutors

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20150930-story.html

Prosecutors have turned over new evidence in the Freddie Gray case that defense attorneys say should have been handed over months ago, including witness statements that Gray was "losing his mind" and kicking and shaking the police transport van where he sustained a fatal spinal cord injury.

Attorneys for the six Baltimore police officers charged in Gray's arrest and death asked that the court sanction prosecutors, repeating a request for sanctions made in July. The defense wants prosecutors to hand over additional evidence and the court to exclude from trial any evidence withheld from them.

They argued that Gray's erratic behavior in the van not only indicates it may have been reasonable under the circumstances to not place him in a seat belt but also that Gray may have caused his own injuries.

Those witnesses included someone who claimed to have fled from police with Gray before his arrest and a police officer who was not charged and saw the transport van's second stop, during which officers shackled Gray's legs. Another statement came from Donta Allen, the man who was placed in the back of the van with Gray at its last stop before arriving at the police station, where Gray was found to be unresponsive.

The recent evidence also included a statement from a police officer who recounted a previous chase in which Gray allegedly discarded heroin and internal police documents from 2011 that described the area where Gray was arrested as particularly violent. The document encouraged officers there to conduct "stop and frisks" of suspicious individuals.


remember Mosby is charging the police w an illegal arrest

According to a copy of Gray's autopsy obtained by The Baltimore Sun, Gray suffered a single "high-energy injury" to his neck and spine most likely caused when the police van in which he was riding suddenly decelerated.

On Aug. 6, the attorneys wrote, prosecutors disclosed to the defense for the first time police records that included a statement by Allen that he heard Gray "banging" his head against the metal divider in the transport van — before the state contends Gray suffered his fatal injury.

Allen has since denied hearing such sounds .

reportedly there is an interview video of Allen saying he heard banging

Also on Aug. 6, prosecutors disclosed another witness at the intersection of Mount and Baker streets, the defense said. That person told investigators that "the individual inside the police van was kicking the inner door and aggressively shaking the wagon."

On Aug. 31, prosecutors turned over a 2011 police document called the "Western District Areas of Concern/Operational Plan," according to the defense. The plan directed officers to "conduct proactive, targeted enforcement and provide a highly visible, uniformed presence in areas of the Western District that have experienced historical and current violence," including those areas where police chased and arrested Gray.

On Sept. 11, prosecutors disclosed the name of the person — excluded from the defense motion — who allegedly fled with Gray from the initial scene where bike officers spotted Gray, at North Avenue and Mount Street, according to the defense.

Also on Sept. 11, prosecutors disclosed a statement made by an unnamed police officer who saw the transport van at Mount and Baker.

"I had noticed the wagon was shaking inside. Violently shaking inside," the officer said, according to the defense motion. "And Freddie was losing his mind."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20151002-story.html

In response to a motion to dismiss charges of reckless endangerment against three officers, prosecutors said defense attorneys wrongly focused on the state's allegation that the officers failed to secure Gray with a seat belt.

Attorneys for Lt. Brian W. Rice and Officers Edward M. Nero and Garrett E. Miller had argued that failing to place a seat belt on Gray does not constitute criminal negligence.

But prosecutors wrote in their latest filing that the defense attorneys misunderstand Maryland law and that their argument "rests on an inaccurate portrayal of the conduct charged."

The reckless endangerment charge "does not involve the risk that a prisoner may be injured or killed during a simple ride in the back of a police cruiser without a seatbelt," prosecutors wrote.

"This case involves the risk to a prisoner created by transporting him in a police vehicle resembling a steel cage without a seatbelt — while his hands and legs are physically restrained from movement."

************************
A drug dealer / user with drugs in his system, rocking the van, beating on the doors, gets shackled. Then the prosecutors charge reckless endangerment. Makes no sense to me.

This is a set of links that are reports from the Baltimore Sun paper from interviews with the Baltimore police dept.

Very insightful read.

Describes how Marilyn Mosby kept the police in the dark and some real shock when she announced the charges.

Mosby did her own investigation with the Sheriffs Office that provides court security.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20151008-story.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20151008-story.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20151008-story.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20151008-story.html

The links are sequential from top to bottom.

Several updates on the Baltimore situation

1. Marilyn Mosby is the Baltimore prosecutor who made the over the top charges against the 6 police officers.

Her husband Nick Mosby is now running for Baltimore Mayor in the 2016 election.

April's riots after the death of Freddie Gray happened in Nick Mosby's district.

2. Freddie Gray's mother is Gloria Darden.

Of the 6.4 million "settlement", she got most of it. She got 5.6 million.

News reports claim Gloria Darden recently attempted suicide.

Darden says she started using heroin when she was 23 yo. She is illiterate and never attended high school. Besides teaching her son to count, she could teach him little else, she said in a 2009 deposition.

https://atlantablackstar.com/2...cism-and-depression/


3. The judge presiding over the Freddie Gray case has issued a gag order.

Defense lawyers recently asked that the jury be sequestered with limited contact with friends and family.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
Several updates on the Baltimore situation

1. Marilyn Mosby is the Baltimore prosecutor who made the over the top charges against the 6 police officers.

Her husband Nick Mosby is now running for Baltimore Mayor in the 2016 election.

April's riots after the death of Freddie Gray happened in Nick Mosby's district.

2. Freddie Gray's mother is Gloria Darden.

Of the 6.4 million "settlement", she got most of it. She got 5.6 million.

News reports claim Gloria Darden recently attempted suicide.

Darden says she started using heroin when she was 23 yo. She is illiterate and never attended high school. Besides teaching her son to count, she could teach him little else, she said in a 2009 deposition.

https://atlantablackstar.com/2...cism-and-depression/



3. The judge presiding over the Freddie Gray case has issued a gag order.

Defense lawyers recently asked that the jury be sequestered with limited contact with friends and family.

She Didn't learn anything in school up till hi school ? I had a decent command of reading and the language by the time I was done with 5th grade. How sad. Who gets what's left of her millions if she does decide to cash it in ?


What an epic cluster all the way around.

So the Baltimore mayor gave out a 6.4 million settlement on the Freddie Gray case.

She let the city burn in the riots.

She announced she will not run for reelection.

Now she announces there is a Baltimore budget shortfall of $ 75 million.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20151112-story.html

In 2013, Rawlings-Blake said the city had run up a structural deficit of nearly $750 million over the next decade and she began sweeping changes to close the gap.

Her administration says it has reduced that deficit by about $350 million through cuts to health care and pension costs and new work shifts for firefighters, among other changes.

Without those charges, next year's budget shortfall would be nearly three times as large — $200 million — according to Kleine.

Rawlings-Blake is pledging to make sure the budget gap is closed by the time a new mayor is elected, her spokesman said.

The Baltimore Sun provided some more info on the morning of Freddie Gray's arrest.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20151113-story.html

Gray was with 2 of his friends: Davonte Roary and Brandon Ross. Both of the friends may testify at the upcoming trials.

Gray and Roary took off running that morning. Ross did not.

Roary says they did not see the police but did not say why he and Gray ran in different directions.

Roary was later arrested for previous charges. (assault / theft). The charges were dropped.

In July, Roary was arrested for attempted murder during a bad drug deal.

Roary's trial was supposed to start this week, but the prosecutor asked for a delay until January.

Ross has previous convictions of attempted murder and manufacturing drugs.

Ross was arrested in June for alleged probation violation. Police restrained his hands and feet, and secured him with seat belt in the van.

Police say Ross took the belt off to kick the van doors. He was charged w disorderly conduct.

Charges against Ross were dropped.

Ross has said he kept asking the officers who arrested Gray to stop treating Gray roughly.

*********************

interesting that Ross was belted in the van and then took the belt off himself to kick the door.

also strange that Roary says they just took off running without seeing any police.

I don't trust the Baltimore prosecutors. I hope there isn't a game to get Ross and Roary to provide damaging testimony.

The first trial is set for 30 November.

Baltimore is at 309 homicides for 2015. Last year, there were only 211 homicides. There will be a 50 % increase from 2014 to 2015.

If the prosecutors go all out to convict the 6 police officers (which no doubt they will), there could be another wave of police resentment like that seen last May. Who could blame them?

There are 38 homicide detectives. The homicide unit commander said: "It's overwhelming for detectives. They are 24/7 working cases."

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/bal...ds-of-cases/36529860

A few months ago, the Baltimore homicide closure rate was 36%. A slew of federal agencies sent personnel to Baltimore to help them solve the murders.

What is the closure rate now? It has dropped further to 31%.

Officer William Porter is the first defendant.

It is reported that Officer Porter will testify.

The other prisoner, who was in the van w Freddie Gray, has also been called to testify by the defense.

Donta Allen, 23, has been ordered by Judge Barry Williams to be brought to Baltimore from Pennsylvania, where he is charged with passing a fraudulent check.

Allen told investigators trying to determine how Gray was injured that the van didn't drive recklessly or make any fast turns while he was in it, police said.

Separated from Gray by a partition, Allen said in May, he heard "very little banging for like four seconds" during the ride and nothing else. Allen has since denied hearing such sounds.

Defense attorneys wrote in a pretrial motion that Porter "anticipates testifying in this matter," and prosecutors say he plans to call up to 25 character witnesses, which they labeled "absurd."

In a separate filing, prosecutors sought to prevent the defense from mentioning Gray's past encounters with law enforcement, saying they are irrelevant to the allegations against Porter.

The new filing outlines more of Porter's statement, in which he acknowledges having recognized Gray "from the neighborhood" and indicates that he knew of a previous incident in which Gray had allegedly fought after being arrested.

"I recall that an incident with Freddie Gray before ... [w]here another unit tried to arrest him and he had done the same thing. He had tried to kick out the windows in the ... truck. You know, so he was always, always, like, banging around. It was always a big scene whenever you attempted to arrest Freddie Gray."

That information is relevant, Porter's attorneys argue, because "the extent to which Officer Porter knew of the potential seriousness of the situation [on April 12] ... must be informed by his prior dealings with Mr. Gray," the filing said.


The police union is paying for the defense lawyers for each of the 6 officers. The anticipated total defense cost is about one million dollars.

first trial started today.

Interviewing 80 prospective jurors to get 12 plus 4 alternates

tweeted from court:

Judge Barry Williams has said the only way to find out is to call potential city jurors to the court and ask them during the jury selection process, known as voir dire, if they can be fair.

The judge overseeing the Freddie Gray trials has history of prosecuting police misconduct cases across the country

Williams said he "rarely" exercises his "limited" authority to excuse viable jurors, thinks it is "important" for ppl to be tried by peers.

When asked about police bias, pro or against, only 7 rose hands

Biggest responses:
-Victim of crime or charged with a crime: 38.
-"Strong feelings" abt manslaughter/police misconduct: 26

Q: would you give "more or less weight" to testimony from cop simply bc cop? 7 jurors stood.

Protests outside were audible in the courtroom. Could hear "What do we want?" "When do we want it" "All night, all day"

Q: You or immed fam member victim of crime, been arrested/charged/convicted, or facing pending charges? 38 jurors stood.


Q: Do you have "strong feelings" about #FreddieGray or Porter being African American? 1 juror stood.

Q: Do you have strong feelings about race, sex, religion, etc, of defendant, witnesses, etc? 1 juror stood.

Q: Have any of you *not* heard about this case? Zero jurors stood.

Q: Are you *not* aware of the curfew imposed after unrest after #FreddieGray 's death? Zero jurors stood.

Q: Are you *not* aware of the ($6 .4M) civil payout city agreed to with #FreddieGray 's family? Zero jurors stood.

Potential juror #233 stood as knowing @MarilynMosbyEsq and Det. Syreeta Teel, lead detective in BPD investigation of #FreddieGray 's death.

http://live.baltimoresun.com/E...y_case_live_coverage


adding:

The potential jurors were sent home around 5:45 p.m. and told to return Wednesday unless instructed otherwise.

Another group of 75 potential jurors will be questioned Tuesday morning.

Williams read a list of more than 200 potential witnesses. He also told jurors that the trial would not go past Dec. 17.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

If you can't see this is a case of over charging to pander to a rioting mob, then you will never see it.

Innocent people face criminal charges every day in this nation. It's a shame that it happens, but it is what it is.

If the prosecutor doesn't have the evidence to back up their charges, then those accused should be found not guilty. No?

A lot of you guys are complaining about "what might be" instead of "what is". You may be right. Maybe not. There's only one way to know, and that's to let our system work. Then if you're right, you can complain, and I'll complain along with you. If you're wrong, you've wasted a lot of time complaining for no reason.

Patience. It's a virtue, or so I'm told.

I wonder. If your wife or brother was one of the accused in this case, would you be as relaxed and confident that the "system" will likely end up with something that approximates justice, after maybe a couple of years of pure hell? Or might it be akin to the lawyer quip, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it most likely is a mockery of justice.

quote:

I wonder. If your wife or brother was one of the accused in this case, would you be as relaxed and confident that the "system" will likely end up with something that approximates justice, after maybe a couple of years of pure hell?

Absolutely not. But again, it happens every day. It's even happened to me.

So what makes this group any different? Why should they get some sort of treatment different than everybody else gets?

And we still haven't seen anything presented by the prosecution. So anything prior to seeing their case is pure speculation. Maybe it is just a bunch of BS. Maybe it's not. Only one way to find out, and that's to wait for the trial. It sure looks like there are a number of innocent people forced to go through this process:

quote:

478 murder cases were adjudicated in Baltimore in 2006-2008. Of those, nearly 40 percent resulted in not guilty verdicts, dropped charges or pleas or convictions on lesser charges. Among cases that went to trial, prosecutors' record of getting murder convictions was about 50-50.

I'm not going to post any specifics, because the thread was locked before it could get a single response. I suppose it was thought to be a "police bashing thread". But people in this thread are saying this prosecutor is bringing false charges against this group, and demanding action.

Well the story I posted was about a prosecutor who was caught railroading people, and was herself prosecuted. So it does happen, it can happen, and if that's the case here, I hope it happens to this prosecutor as well.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

I wonder. If your wife or brother was one of the accused in this case, would you be as relaxed and confident that the "system" will likely end up with something that approximates justice, after maybe a couple of years of pure hell?

Absolutely not. But again, it happens every day. It's even happened to me.

So what makes this group any different? Why should they get some sort of treatment different than everybody else gets?

And we still haven't seen anything presented by the prosecution. So anything prior to seeing their case is pure speculation. Maybe it is just a bunch of BS. Maybe it's not. Only one way to find out, and that's to wait for the trial. It sure looks like there are a number of innocent people forced to go through this process:

quote:

478 murder cases were adjudicated in Baltimore in 2006-2008. Of those, nearly 40 percent resulted in not guilty verdicts, dropped charges or pleas or convictions on lesser charges. Among cases that went to trial, prosecutors' record of getting murder convictions was about 50-50.

I'm not going to post any specifics, because the thread was locked before it could get a single response. I suppose it was thought to be a "police bashing thread". But people in this thread are saying this prosecutor is bringing false charges against this group, and demanding action.

Well the story I posted was about a prosecutor who was caught railroading people, and was herself prosecuted. So it does happen, it can happen, and if that's the case here, I hope it happens to this prosecutor as well.

Remember though, "not guilty" is not the same as "innocent." It means there wasn't enough evidence to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

OJ Simpson was found "not guilty" and not many people believe he is "innocent."

quote:

Remember though, "not guilty" is not the same as "innocent." It means there wasn't enough evidence to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

Would you say the same thing as it relates to this story if it turns out the same way?

I suppose my point is today we have outrage because of the players involved. But where was the outrage before? "Not guilty" may not be the same as "innocent" in every case, but you know it does mean exactly that sometimes. Same as charges being completely dismissed.

If we're going to be outraged at how our system works, how about a little outrage for all of the people that have been screwed by it, and not a select few?

It's even happened to me

It sounds like you hold a grudge and that is driving your thoughts.

So what makes this group any different?

nothing

Why should they get some sort of treatment different than everybody else gets?

they shouldn't

The facts that are known are completely out of line with the charges. This would be a bad case no matter who the defendants were.

So anything prior to seeing their case is pure speculation

no, not at all. The prosecutor has described why she is charging:

a. There was insufficient reason to arrest Gray
b. Gray wasn't forced to use a seat belt
c. Medical attention was not provided quickly enough

If you truly believe there isn't anything known, go back through this thread and read the numerous extremely detailed accounts provided by the Baltimore Sun paper.

These include what happened in public statements, videos, direct interviews, and preliminary trial hearings.

I cannot understand why you think that because other innocent people have been prosecuted unfairly, it is okay to ruin people's lives on profoundly over the top charges.

I have very little confidence in a Baltimore jury delivering justice. Even if their intentions are good, they will be well aware of the near certainty of riots if the police are found not guilty.

Baltimore is a city dominated by criminals. The homicide clearing rate is 31%.

Prosecutors say witnesses fear for their lives, so they do not testify.

These jurors will indeed be concerned about their safety if they return not guilty verdicts.

I don't expect to change your opinion on this, but you keep arguing generalities about the justice system while ignoring all that is known regarding this specific case.

quote:

It sounds like you hold a grudge and that is driving your thoughts.

Of course I hold a grudge, but that has nothing to do with the reality of the situation: Innocent people regularly face criminal charges, and are sometimes even convicted.

That is our system, like it or not.

quote:

The facts that are known The facts that are known are completely out of line with the charges. This would be a bad case no matter who the defendants were.

Which is why I am willing to wait to see what the prosecutor has. How often do we know all of the facts prior to a trial? Isn't that the entire point of a trial?

Why don't we wait until we see the facts we don't yet know prior to jumping to conclusions?

quote:

If you truly believe there isn't anything known,

We don't know what evidence she has, because she has not presented it at trial yet.

quote:

I don't expect to change your opinion on this, but you keep arguing generalities about the justice system while ignoring all that is known regarding this specific case.

I don't have an opinion on this case, so there's nothing to change. The extent of my opinion is that I'm willing to let the system work to flush out who is right, and who is wrong. That's how it works, right, wrong, or indifferent.

Here are the possibilities:

Those charged either committed a crime, or they didn't.

There is either evidence to support those criminal charges, or there is not.

The evidence presented will either be legitimate, or fabricated.

I am willing to wait to see what the prosecution has to present.

quote:

I cannot understand why you think that because other innocent people have been prosecuted unfairly, it is okay to ruin people's lives on profoundly over the top charges.

I don't think it's OK at all, but that is our system. I can't understand why some people are all of a sudden outraged when these types of things have been going on forever. But before I do get outraged, I want to see the case and all of its evidence presented. Because then, and only then, will we know who to be outraged at.

Not to mention at this point that it's not worth complaining about. What has happened has happened, and it's going to work itself out. Whether or not charges should have been brought is completely irrelevant at this stage because they have been brought, and there's going to be a trial. At the end of the trial, we'll see who is who, and what is what.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: a1abdj,