quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

Oh, and for the record I have caught runners in a Maserati with a Ford Explorer, a BMW 3-series with a Dodge Durango, and a VW New Beetle with a Chevy Tahoe, so the big boys can play too if you know how to handle them!

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Originally posted by ridewv:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Yay. More insanely boring little unibody crossover SUV things. Just what the world needs .

IMO nothing is more boring than driving a pick up truck.

I drove a single cab F-150 with the Coyote and a 10 speed last week and it was a ton of fun. Definitely more fun than any little SUV 4 banger.

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The point being pick-ups finally seem to be loosing market share, abet slowly and this is just one year, but still.

losing, not 'loosing' and albeit, not 'abet.'

Pick-up manufacturers had done a double whammy on consumers with both large price increases between 2020 and 2024 and only making top trim levels. This time last year, the 10 vehicles moving off the dealer lots the slowest (defined by inventory on lot vs sales) was riddled with $70k-$80k half-ton pick-ups. By midyear, the 10 slowest selling list just had the Ram pick-ups on there which makes sense as they had the largest price increase between 2020 and 2024.

Conversely, the vehicles moving off dealer lots the fastest (i.e. low inventory vs sales) was full of vehicles under $45k. Hardly ever a luxury vehicle, and never an electric vehicle.

Consumers seem to have waited for better deals. For example, I just checked the 10 fastest selling list and it's chock full of luxury vehicles (4 Lexus, 2 BMW, and a Caddy). I suspect that pick-ups will be next as people will only wait so long, and the prices (sales prices not MSRP) have gotten better.

Thinking it has always been the catch all category of the Ford F-series that had kept them as the sales leader.

By the same token, the RAV-4 and the RAV-4 Hybrid are grouped together as they also included the F-150 Lightning.

As for me, if I traded in my ol' pickup for some of these new ones, there is no modern day equivalent.

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Originally posted by ridgerat:

quote:

The point being pick-ups finally seem to be loosing market share, abet slowly and this is just one year, but still.

losing, not 'loosing' and albeit, not 'abet.'

And yet, even with these typos, I was still able to understand the post. . .

I always considered trucks as having a truck chassis. RAV4, CRV, etc. have an automobile chassis. So in my opinion Toyota RAV4 is a car while the 4 runner is a truck.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
It's been surpassed by Toyota's Rav4. Some speculate it's because F150's have become too expensive, but Rav4's are too. Maybe finally the trend to drive pick-up trucks is starting to wane?

https://www.ford-trucks.com/ar...-to-the-toyota-rav4/

Trucks have gotten ridiculously expensive with many well north of 50 grand and some as high as 70 grand so who can afford to drive them plus none of them are fuel efficient although fuel economy as slightly improved. I have a 2010 Tundra as a second vehicle and my daily driver is a Camry but if I could only have one vehicle the truck would have to go, to big to drive and park in some places and it burns to much gas to drive daily.

The RAV 4 is expensive also compared to a few years ago but you can still buy a entry to mid level RAV 4 for around 35-36 grand so much more affordable and practical than a F150 or any truck.

Nothing has changed. For as long as I can recall, Ford has always claimed the "F-Series" as the best selling vehicle which includes The various Super Duty trims. If you broke it down by class, there were many times in the past where The Silverado 1500 outsold the F-150, especially if you lump in the basically identical Sierra. I'm sure there are countless times where the F-150 was not the best seller overall each year but these days it is tough to tell as both Ford and GM don't break it down like they once did.

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so much more affordable and practical than a F150 or any truck.

That depends on what you're doing. If you're using it to commute, I agree that a truck makes no sense. I laugh every time I see somebody driving around in an $80k Gladiator with 37" tires, a winch, $30-40k worth of off-road gear, and immaculate paint. There's no trails around here, dude is just driving it to work, and the most dirt that thing has ever seen is when he parked over the curb at the local strip mall.

But pulling a trailer, hauling a load of firewood, picking up 50 sheets of plywood or drywall...you're not doing any of that effectively without a truck. I've done it all multiple times in the past month, and I'm not a contractor or professional by any means...just a homeowner who's got stuff to get done. I couldn't get by without my truck.

That said, mine's not an $80k "bro-dozer", either...it's 24 years old and has 225K on it, with the dents and rust to match. I paid $2800 for it 13 years ago, and I'm keeping it until it's dead. I don't drive it every day, but when you need it you need it.

For a car, give me a sedan with four doors and a trunk that not only holds more cargo, but hides it from everybody wanting to look in. The only use I might have - and I personally do not - for a "crossover" would be if it has AWD. Few sedans that I can afford are. Ford has discontinued all their sedans.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore, February 15, 2025 12:50 PM

I couldn’t imagine being without a full-sized pickup; had one my entire adult life. I’ve got an F150 bought new in ‘23, with a trade-in of an F150 bought new in 2013 (repeated over the years). I’ve got the window stickers from both trucks.

The 2013 was an FX4 and was flawless. It actually still had the original battery in it when I traded it in.
MSRP was $50K.

I wanted to duplicate the 2013 and shopped for another FX4, unfortunately, Ford now requires the purchase of the Platinum trim level in order to acquire an FX4. That was a no-go, just too much money. I bought an XLT with what Ford calls a “Sport Appearance Package,” and a “Black Pack” leather seat option. It approximates an FX4, but lacks a few things that I miss, universal garage door opener, and power folding side mirrors are examples. Sticker price: $67K.

I got both for less than sticker, but the MSRPs reflect 10 years of inflation.

I might point out that both trucks have (and had) the 3.5 Ecoboost engine. The new truck has a 10 speed automatic transmission and gas mileage is improved over the 6-speed in the 2013.

In some ways I wish I had just kept the 2013, but my wife kept saying, “Do you think it’ll last the rest of your life? You should trade now.” The new one is nice, and I can see myself keeping it for the rest of my life. I guess we’ll see.

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Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

so much more affordable and practical than a F150 or any truck.

That depends on what you're doing. If you're using it to commute, I agree that a truck makes no sense.....
But pulling a trailer, hauling a load of firewood, picking up 50 sheets of plywood or drywall...you're not doing any of that effectively without a truck....

I agree that using a pick up truck to commute doesn't make sense.

I also agree a pick up makes sense for hauling/towing heavy loads. Even if you regularly carry lighter but bulky building material. Remodelers, contractors, farmer, rancher, etc, a heavy duty truck or van makes complete sense. Same for those who tow a heavy RV.

OTOH if you only seldom have need to haul this kind of load there are better options than buying a pick up "just in case I might need to get some shrubs or plywood". For the few times a year a truck might be handy to pick up something, one could just choose to have the stuff delivered. Another option is you can rent a pick up truck at Lowes, etc., for $25.

Another versatile and less expensive option for many would be a nice aluminum utility trailer. You don't have to insure it, only have to buy once, and if taken care of doesn't even depreciate. This combo, along with a small or mid-size SUV can be used to pick up stuff that won't fit in the back, shrubs, mulch, firewood, transport the garden tractor, plywood and lumber, motorcycle, fishing boat, small camper, garbage to the dump, furniture, etc.

My family's business when I was growing up was a lumber yard. My dad always said if you're not hauling stuff to make money on a regular basis a pick up sucks. Took my two pickups in my younger years to figure out good ole dad was very correct. For my needs I can rent a truck from home depot when I need to haul something.

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Originally posted by TMats:

The 2013 was an FX4

I wanted to duplicate the 2013 and shopped for another FX4, unfortunately, Ford now requires the purchase of the Platinum trim level in order to acquire an FX4.

Point of fact: The FX4 package is available on any trim level except for the base/entry XL series. Just FYI. It isn't an expensive (in the grand scheme of things) upgrade. It's a fiberglass "skid plate", different/softer "off-road" shocks, and normally a set of 10-ply/LT all terrain tires. From everything I see it's about an $1100 upgrade on the SXT, XLT, Lariat, King Ranch, or Platinum trim levels. The Tremor and Raptor don't have it as an option because they're already better equipped for off-roading, ostensibly.

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Originally posted by akcopnfbks:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:

The 2013 was an FX4

I wanted to duplicate the 2013 and shopped for another FX4, unfortunately, Ford now requires the purchase of the Platinum trim level in order to acquire an FX4.

Point of fact: The FX4 package is available on any trim level except for the base/entry XL series. Just FYI. It isn't an expensive (in the grand scheme of things) upgrade. It's a fiberglass "skid plate", different/softer "off-road" shocks, and normally a set of 10-ply/LT all terrain tires. From everything I see it's about an $1100 upgrade on the SXT, XLT, Lariat, King Ranch, or Platinum trim levels. The Tremor and Raptor don't have it as an option because they're already better equipped for off-roading, ostensibly.

Two things can be simultaneously true:

TMats dealer can tell him in '23 that FX4 only available with Platinum trim. Both dealerships and automakers were up to lots of shenanigans tying unrelated expensive options to other expensive options back then. It was truly a sellers market then.

Now, you can see FX4 offered on many trim levels. The rug got yanked out from under the automakers and dealerships, and it's much more of a buyers market.

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Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by akcopnfbks:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:

The 2013 was an FX4

I wanted to duplicate the 2013 and shopped for another FX4, unfortunately, Ford now requires the purchase of the Platinum trim level in order to acquire an FX4.

Point of fact: The FX4 package is available on any trim level except for the base/entry XL series. Just FYI. It isn't an expensive (in the grand scheme of things) upgrade. It's a fiberglass "skid plate", different/softer "off-road" shocks, and normally a set of 10-ply/LT all terrain tires. From everything I see it's about an $1100 upgrade on the SXT, XLT, Lariat, King Ranch, or Platinum trim levels. The Tremor and Raptor don't have it as an option because they're already better equipped for off-roading, ostensibly.

Two things can be simultaneously true:

TMats dealer can tell him in '23 that FX4 only available with Platinum trim. Both dealerships and automakers were up to lots of shenanigans tying unrelated expensive options to other expensive options back then. It was truly a sellers market then.

Now, you can see FX4 offered on many trim levels. The rug got yanked out from under the automakers and dealerships, and it's much more of a buyers market.

Good point. My 2020 F150 XLT has the FX4 package, and I did zero shopping or comparing at any time between Feb. 2020 when I got it and about 3 hours ago when I looked on the website. I assumed things didn't substantively change between 2020 & now.

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Originally posted by ridewv:
And if you combine Rav4 and CRV they top Ford F150 and Chevy Silverado combined.

Interesting
Do the Rav4 and CRV come off the SAME assembly line... like the Chevy and GMC trucks do.

I know good used <100k RAV4s are scarce... Around here at least. I tried to find one to buy last year, looked for a few months... gave up.

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Originally posted by cparktd:

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
And if you combine Rav4 and CRV they top Ford F150 and Chevy Silverado combined.

Interesting
Do the Rav4 and CRV come off the SAME assembly line... like the Chevy and GMC trucks do.

Obviously Toyota's Rav4 doesn't come off the same assembly line as Honda's CRV. Nor does Ford's F150 come off the same assembly line as Chevy Silverados, or GMC's.