quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't you be exposing yourself to the same risk pushing yourself during a vigorous exercise session as during an unplanned tire change?

If you do it unwisely or carelessly: Sure. Difference is: The unplanned tire change will take certain work/effort. You have no choice. It takes what it takes. At the gym or in your home gym you can choose the level of effort, and ramp it up as you become stronger.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
All this talk of the perfect foods, shit foods, the best diets, 9 servings of fruits and vegetables per day, blah, blah, blah, just cracks me up.

I'm glad you're amused, but your assertions are not valid. E.g.:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Spending time and energy analyzing your foods to the point of counting grams of carbohydrates is an idiotic waste of time.

In your opinion, invalid though it may be.

It is a fact that excess carbs go directly to fat. It is a fact that your body, when properly called-upon to do so, can easily supply much of its daily need for energy supply from stored fat.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Eat whatever good food you like and stay active. That's the secret and there ain't much more to it.

Provably false.

I like pancakes--saturated with butter and maple syrup. Place down the street makes a mean chorizo omelette that is terrific with some of their sausage gravy over it. Biscuits & sausage gravy. Nearby brewpub has great beer (I love beer) and a very nice cajun fettuccine afredo. Love me some Jet's deep dish meat lovers pizza with cajun crust. Fried chicken liberally dipped in ranch dressing. Loaded chilli dogs and a side of loaded fries (chilli, cheese and onions). Arby's roast beef stacked high, with a side of their curly fries. Surf and turf (prime rib & lobster tail), complete with baked potato saturated with butter and a liberal dollop of sour cream atop. Good Caesar salad. A good tossed salad liberally covered with a good blue cheese dressing. Good bar burgers & seasoned fries.

If I ate like that often, never mind regularly, I'd be as big as a house--exercise or no exercise. The plain and simple truth is that it's nearly impossible for any "normal" individual to out-exercise a bad diet.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic: The plain and simple truth is that it's nearly impossible for any "normal" individual to out-exercise a bad diet.

Very true. Then we can't really blame lack of physical labor or gym time for the modern day obesity surge.

However, the list of "bad foods" seems to be ever expanding. Let's not go back to caveman days, but just back to the mid-twentieth century. People were a LOT thinner. I guarantee you they were eating potatoes, corn, white bread, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

quote:

BTW, I've seen plenty of overweight farm workers, as well as overweight (fit but fat) gym guys.

You really need to reprase (and possibly rethink) this statement. Ond can be quite strong and fat but they are NOT Fit. A large belly is ALWAYS linked to excess fat surrounding the heart and that impedes heart function and longevity.

Simply false. Patently so.

Patently so?

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
Patently so?

Yeah, I patented it.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
Patently so?

Yeah, I patented it.

Better safe than sorry.

You're saying large amounts of belly fat is good and not associated with health issues?

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Very true. Then we can't really blame lack of physical labor for the modern day obesity surge.

It's both.

I one day watched a neighbour woman that lived just three doors down from us get in her car and drive to our house. No, she wasn't going anywhere else afterwards. Just back home. Weather was nice. Road wasn't muddy. She wasn't sick or injured.

Several years ago I watched a school bus leave an elementary school parking lot, turn left at the first light, go about 100 yards down the road, stop at a tiny, little subdivision, and let a child out. There were was sidewalk the entire way. All of about 1/4 mile, if that. (To add insult to injury, that helped snarl traffic during the beginning of rush hour.)

So, yeah, it's mainly diet. But lack of activity plays a big part, too.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
However, the list of "bad foods" seem to be ever expanding.

People need to stop hearing absolutes and listen to what's actually being said. It's not "such-and-such food is bad for you," most times, so much as "too much of this-or-that is unhealthy."

It's okay for me to have a chorizo sausage omelette covered in biscuit gravy, along with a side of shredded potatoes, every once-in-a-while. It's not okay for me to eat that every morning.

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
You're saying large amounts of belly fat is good and not associated with health issues?

I'm saying there is subcutaneous fat and visceral fat. An active, physically fit fat person will have a lot of peripheral fat but very little visceral fat. Take a sumo wrestler for example. They typically don't exhibit any of the negative side effects of obesity as most of their fat is stored right under the skin.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
You're saying large amounts of belly fat is good and not associated with health issues?

I'm saying there is subcutaneous fat and visceral fat. An active, physically fit fat person will have a lot of peripheral fat but very little visceral fat. Take a sumo wrestler for example. They typically don't exhibit any of the negative side effects of obesity as most of their fat is stored right under the skin.

...and then within 4-6 weeks of your "physically fit fat person" stopping their vigorous workouts, they will quickly start to realize the same health issues that non-physically fit fat people deal with.

The average life span for a sumo wrestler is around 57.

Fat is fat. The extra-weight overburdens your heart, your liver, your lungs, your muscles and all that shorten your life.

More, even, exercising hard when you’re that fat is another fact that can bring you heart attacks or lethal strokes.

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:
You're saying large amounts of belly fat is good and not associated with health issues?

I'm saying there is subcutaneous fat and visceral fat. An active, physically fit fat person will have a lot of peripheral fat but very little visceral fat. Take a sumo wrestler for example. They typically don't exhibit any of the negative side effects of obesity as most of their fat is stored right under the skin.

...and then within 4-6 weeks of your "physically fit fat person" stopping their vigorous workouts, they will quickly start to realize the same health issues that non-physically fit fat people deal with.

The average life span for a sumo wrestler is around 57.

Fat is fat. The extra-weight overburdens your heart, your liver, your lungs, your muscles and all that shorten your life.

More, even, exercising hard when you’re that fat is another fact that can bring you heart attacks or lethal strokes.

This. Balze Halze, have any links to data proving otherwise?

I read a great story about a world class powerlifter whose MD. told him he needs to retire immediately or die real soon. He did so, dropped the fat and all the heart and metabolic syndrome issues he was experiencing went away.

Excess body fat and health issues is about as good of a correlation as there is in the medical field. I don't know at what point on a sliding scale you become "fat" enough to be unhealthy despite any fitness levels. Fit plus being 15-20lbs over what you'd weight at say 8-10% body fat is probably OK. 50lbs is likely way too much.

What does the blood work say and what is the trend? That is a real good indicator. And, just because things are in a normal range today, doesn't mean it will still be next year, or the year after.

Our station used to service a fleet of OTR tire repair trucks. I can tell you that all of those drivers were freaking jacked. Bust'n split rims all day with a sledge hammer kept those guys in shape.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I'm saying there is subcutaneous fat and visceral fat. An active, physically fit fat person will have a lot of peripheral fat but very little visceral fat.

Cite?

(Btw: Just had a conversation on this subject with the manager at my fitness club. He used to work as a nutritionist at a weight loss clinic. He agreed that, while one can be fat (for some definition of "fat") and fit, one cannot be fat and healthy.)

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Take a sumo wrestler for example.

Sumo wrestlers are hardly an example of normal physiology. Good Lord.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic: The plain and simple truth is that it's nearly impossible for any "normal" individual to out-exercise a bad diet.

Very true. Then we can't really blame lack of physical labor or gym time for the modern day obesity surge.

However, the list of "bad foods" seems to be ever expanding. Let's not go back to caveman days, but just back to the mid-twentieth century. People were a LOT thinner. I guarantee you they were eating potatoes, corn, white bread, etc.

Obesity is 90% diet. It takes an hour of good exercise to burn off 300 calories. It takes 2 seconds to eat 300 calories with a candy bar or Ice cream or other dessert.

This might be interesting:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I'm saying there is subcutaneous fat and visceral fat. An active, physically fit fat person will have a lot of peripheral fat but very little visceral fat.

Cite?

(Btw: Just had a conversation on this subject with the manager at my fitness club. He used to work as a nutritionist at a weight loss clinic. He agreed that, while one can be fat (for some definition of "fat") and fit, one cannot be fat and healthy.)

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Take a sumo wrestler for example.

Sumo wrestlers are hardly an example of normal physiology. Good Lord.

Exactly. Average life expectancy of a sumo wrestler is 60 years. Way below average.

quote:

Originally posted by dave7378:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I'm saying there is subcutaneous fat and visceral fat. An active, physically fit fat person will have a lot of peripheral fat but very little visceral fat.

Cite?

(Btw: Just had a conversation on this subject with the manager at my fitness club. He used to work as a nutritionist at a weight loss clinic. He agreed that, while one can be fat (for some definition of "fat") and fit, one cannot be fat and healthy.)

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Take a sumo wrestler for example.

Sumo wrestlers are hardly an example of normal physiology. Good Lord.

Exactly. Average life expectancy of a sumo wrestler is 60 years. Way below average.

I'll just leave this here...

quote:

The negative health effects of the sumo lifestyle can become apparent later in life. Sumo wrestlers have a life expectancy between 60 and 65, more than 10 years shorter than the average Japanese male, as the diet and sport take a toll on the wrestler's body. Many develop diabetes or high blood pressure, and they are prone to heart attacks due to the enormous amount of body mass and fat that they accumulate. The excessive intake of alcohol can lead to liver problems and the stress on their joints due to their excess weight can cause arthritis. Recently, the standards of weight gain are becoming less strict, in an effort to improve the overall health of the wrestlers.

(emphasis added)
Ref: Sumo (Wikipedia)

Crom's chart kind of makes you wonder why the divisions are placed where they are. If healthiest range is about 20-27, shouldn't that be "normal"?

So anyone want to buy a patent?

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

quote:

BTW, I've seen plenty of overweight farm workers, as well as overweight (fit but fat) gym guys.

You really need to reprase (and possibly rethink) this statement. Ond can be quite strong and fat but they are NOT Fit. A large belly is ALWAYS linked to excess fat surrounding the heart and that impedes heart function and longevity. To be blunt being fat means that you will not live to see 100 and most will have a heart attack before they reach 65.

]

Okay, perhaps "Fit" is not exactly correct. What I was getting at is there are people who workout regularly, don't smoke or drink in excess, and eat somewhat healthy but perhaps overdo carbs and calories which causes them to stay overweight. They are strong, have good aerobic stamina, BP and all organ functions are good etc. They are just carrying around extra pounds. Of course this is at a certain point in their life... young... and this will catch up to them eventually as they age. Joints, especially hip and knee take beating carrying the extra weight, and other health issues develop.

The same could be said for the overweight farm worker. Strong as hell. Can work all day long. Feels good and everything checks fine at the doctor's office except that extra 35 lbs they are dragging around. They face the same fate as the gym guy if they continue to carry extra weight as they age.