Hey guys, I’m having a little problem with my current employer and my salary exempt status. To start this off, I’ve worked salaried jobs for the better part of 25 years and I’ve never had a problem. I came to work and did my job, if I had to go to the doctors office I’d duck out for and hour or two and go, no big deal.

My new employer is trying to deduct two hours from my weekly pay because I went to the doctors o. Monday. I’m a salaried exempt employee. I tried to secure this with HR/Payroll and they tell me they have to because of L&I rules and reporting.

This isn’t correct right? I’m basically being treated like an hourly employee that’s not eligible for overtime. I thought if I worked that day I got paid for that day even if it was only 6 hours I’d get a whole days pay. I actually thought that if I worked at all in a given week I was supposed to get paid for the entire week. I might be wrong about the last one. My last employer treated me so good I never really worried about the rules but this new employer seems to be trying to cheat me the best I can tell. I work in Washington state if that makes a difference

I’m just looking for a little guidance. I’ve tried to look on line and DOL and L&I but there is so much info and it’s written so legally it’s hard to understand. Do I need to get an attorney? I could probably straighten the company out if I could just prove to them that they are wrong but I don’t know how or if they are really wrong.

Thanks!

Funny you mention it. The other day I was reading one of those wages posters that companies usually post near an employee entrance. It said that there were several reasons that time could be deducted from exempt employees and several that weren’t allowed. I believe a personal medical appointment was valid for deductions. I’m also an exempt employee. My employer would not deduct any time for me leaving early. It’s definitely BS if you’re constantly working extra hours.

You seriously want to get a lawyer and sue for the two hours you didn't work and didn't get paid for?

Of course if you regularly work more than 40 hours a week - you might have a case.

Why not just make yup the two hours?

My wife is on a salary and when she takes off (like for the Doctor)> she has to either take accumulated Personal Time, Vacation Time, or make up the time.

Now, if you have any employment agreement that specifies otherwise then of course those rules apply.

But you can't blame the employer when they don't pay you for not working, IMO.

Work out a deal if you can but what is fair is fair.

quote:

if I had to go to the doctors office I’d duck out for and hour or two and go, no big deal.

Well, it's a big deal to the employer, and to any of your co-workers who rightly feel that there's a slacker in their mist, whatever your employment status is. Unless I'm missing something.

I'm an exempt salaried employee and we get a 2 hour window we can basically use wherever we like and are not required to report.

Seems like a lawyer would be overkill, as is insinuating someone going to the doc's office makes them a slacker. Dig deep into your employer's policy. Seems like a Dr. appointment would qualify for some kind of PTO, regardless.

I’d hire the lawyer just to prove a point. The money is irrelevant, I don’t like to be taken advantage of and will pay to ruin their day if they piss me off bad enough. I’ve had to do this before with an employer over on call pay.

Also, I found some more info. I don’t get paid by the hour so they can’t deduct by the hour according to L&I. If I work any hours in a day, even 30 minutes or something like that I’m supposed to get paid for the whole day. There is no hourly rate so they can’t deduct hours. If I miss a full day they can deduct a full days pay but not hours.

I’m also no slacker for going to the fucking doctors like twice a year. Jesus man. I work 50-60 hours a week, sometimes more. I don’t take breaks ever and rarely stop working to take a proper lunch. Plus going to the doctors office is just part of life. If they want to pay me by the hour they need to pay me by the hour and nut up on that overtime. Im perfectly willing to work a salaried job but not if they want to treat me like an hourly employee and just not pay overtime.

Do you have any type of leave, sick or PTO policy where you accumulate hours? Are you required to track your time via a timesheet?

I've been salaried for my entire career. Typically, I've accumulated a set amount of Personal Time Off (PTO) hours each pay period. When I take off, I charge that time to PTO. It could be an hour, several hours, or a whole day.

It seems someone should have explained this policy to you and they did not. That is on them, not you.

Bypass Human Resources and Accounting. Go up your management chain to the top to get the right answer.

Where I worked, if we (as exempt employees) worked five hours, we were given credit for the whole eight hour day.
As long as you didn't do short days a lot, it was fine.
We also could always talk with our manager and work out arrangements where we could be flexible both ways.

don't know how it stands now but years ago I got a letter from the IRS... (don't know why; I'm self employed with no employees) it said if I had any salaried employees that worked constantly over 40 hours a week I would need to pay them overtime ontop of their salaries.

I think my question is everyone else’s……

As a salaried employee, you don’t accrue sick leave or PTO for instances when you have to be away from work? No vacation time accrual? That’s pretty standard practice in ANY industry, no?

Our salary exempt employees (who are different from a salary employee) get paid for 40 hours weekly even if they work less then 40 hours. They get paid an overtime rate for hours worked over 40 hours.

Work 34 hours, get paid for 40 hours. Work 46 hours, get paid overtime.

Different companies and different states make this input meaningless to your situation. Start at your HR and actually read your company’s policies and if something seems to conflict with state/federal law, and it is important to you, then think about consulting with a lawyer who specializes in this.

I think I’d sit down with the manager and get a written statement of how time off and pay are to be handled. That way there is no confusion. There is no “trying to get away with something on the employees part”, and no screwing the employee or making up rules when the moment arises by a shady employer. Both scenarios happen all too often and pay structure should be on paper. I’m actually surprised it’s not already written out.
Hope you get it resolved quickly.

I think most companies with salaried employees require an accountable 40-hour workweek. The very definition of an exempt worker, otherwise known as a professional employee, is they work at least 40 hours per week, and sometimes more, without additional compensation.

The fact that your previous employer let you work less than 40 hour weeks is just that particular employers' style, and has no reflection on your current employer. In your previous job, for those times you took off for personal business, did you more or less make it up soon after your time off ? If not then I could see why your new employer raised an eyebrow. Exempt employees often work over 40 hrs when needed without looking sideways. That's why they're called exempt. That's the difference between exempt and hourly workers. The hourly employees work at least 40, and get extra for OT, but exempt workers are generally paid at a higher rate than hourly employees, and are expected to absolutely work a least a 40 hour week. If at the end of the year you're not hitting 2080 nominal hours annually (accounted for hours including vacation/pto, AND resolvable within each pay period), then you'd be an hourly employee instead of an exempt employee.

Since your employer is giving you grief over those two hours, then you need to meet with them to make sure you can be accountable for those missed hours via whatever procedure they have for handling it, such as logging PTO, vacation, or personal time you may have in your employment contract, aka the papers and terms you signed on to when you accepted the job. You can't ignore it as you did with your last employer, since your current employer does not have to follow the same practice as your previous one, which is even more true, in particular for salaried and exempt employers.

400m's post immediately above is exactly correct. If your new employer is dishonest and doesn't have clear policy and procedures for tracking time and pay, then they may just be a poorly managed, or worse, a corrupt company. But my guess is somebody just screwed up, and you're not wise to just assume you got screwed without proactively investigating and fixing it according to company policy and procedures.

I have the feeling that there is more to this situation than a simple two hour disagreement.

If employer/employee relations were cordial, I doubt this would have ever come up. You get in a confrontational relationship, and you can expect that both sides will try to "score points" against the other. I would suggest either trying to repair the relationship, or to seriously consider a change of employer. Two hours in the greater scheme of things is noise.

Seems like there should be some appreciation for being able to take personal time in the middle of the workday, whether compensated or not. A lot of jobs do not permit this.

Personally that's not the way I would have handled if on the part of the employer. I'd just ask you if you would make up those hours later in the week or next week. Most people would agree to that. But violate that trust and understanding and it won't happen again. Sometimes you can use big boy rules but other times, you have to spell it out for people in very black and white terms.

When I was a residential building superintendent, my salary was for 40 hours a week. Boss said if you can get the work done in less than 40, good job but if you go over 40, you were paid 1/2 of what your hourly wage was figured to be. None of the other builders were paying OT. It gave great flexibility and motivation to stay longer to complete work instead of cutting corners. We were allowed to work up to 15 hours of OT a week before needing to clear it with an area manager. As salaried supervisors, the company was not obligated to pay us OT but they did. Turnover was low with that company, I assume the OT policy was a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
I think I’d sit down with the manager and get a written statement of how time off and pay are to be handled. That way there is no confusion. There is no “trying to get away with something on the employees part”, and no screwing the employee or making up rules when the moment arises by a shady employer. Both scenarios happen all too often and pay structure should be on paper. I’m actually surprised it’s not already written out.
Hope you get it resolved quickly.

Yep. Any company that doesn't have an employee handbook that covers things like this is looking to fail. Now I'm not defending HR, even though I work in HR myself, but these things protect both employee and employer and prevent things like this from happening.

quote:

I work 50-60 hours a week, sometimes more.

(As a salaried exempt employee, I understand you are paid a salary based on a specific period and do NOT qualify for OT.)

If you work 50 to 60 instead of the normal 40 on salary, your boss should back you up on the two hours for the appointment. It should not be deducted. This is not a legal or policy decision; it's just what's right.

When I worked salary-exempt, we would accrue PTO that was hourly-based. (When you take PTO, you take off eight hours for a full day, four hours for a half, etc.) Yes, you can take two or three hours as needed.

A few people have asked this question, and I have the same. What do you currently have for PTO or vacation time?

I can tell you that if someone is deducted for those two hours and works 50 to 60 normally on salary, that person might work 40/45 for the next three weeks and see how that flies. If management complains you're not working enough...

You may want to look at this - https://lni.wa.gov/workers-rig...time-rules-resources

Read your employee handbook. Some employers like to be a dick like this, but you can be a dick by charging anything over 40 hours to comp time. This is not legal advice and I am just some dude saying some stupid stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox:
I’d hire the lawyer just to prove a point. The money is irrelevant, I don’t like to be taken advantage of and will pay to ruin their day if they piss me off bad enough. I’ve had to do this before with an employer over on call pay.

I’m also no slacker for going to the fucking doctors like twice a year. Jesus man. I work 50-60 hours a week, sometimes more. I don’t take breaks ever and rarely stop working to take a proper lunch.

I can see you point more now but I think a conversation with someone in authority can clear it up.

There has to be allowances for situations like this that are thought-through and have a documented policy.

Still no need to bring in a lawyer unless you are stonewalled from getting a clear cut picture of the policy and even then I would think about it.

Communication will fix this and ease your stress.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

Washington State has some pro-worker rules not seen in many other places.

You may or not be an exempt worker according to the law.

Here is a place to start.

I have not done business with these people but their website has some good information.


https://www.dwt.com/blogs/empl...age-salary-threshold'

or you can go directly to the state's website.

https://lni.wa.gov/workers-rig...t-salary-budget-tool

Good luck