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-Rob

I figured out what I’m going to do. I’m not working a minute over 40 hours a week. If I’m going to get docked hours for being gone for an hour or two for a doctors visit when I work 50+ hours a week, I’m not working those long hours anymore. If they don’t want a little give and take then I don’t either. Problem solved.

Was this decision reached after legal advice? I’m just curious how the rules helped or hindered your decision.

Question, do you get PTO, if so then go to HR and have them apply the PTO so you get your pay back. Then, if you do have PTO and your manager didn't tell you that you need to take PTO or lose two hours pay, and HR didn't tell you that PTO was there to use then that should be addressed with the head of HR.

If you feel this way then work the 40 and spend the extra 10 to 20 hours you did use at work to find a new employer.

So just to be curious, did you find an employee handbook, what does it say about unpaid time off during work hours and your options.

quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox:
I figured out what I’m going to do. I’m not working a minute over 40 hours a week. If I’m going to get docked hours for being gone for an hour or two for a doctors visit when I work 50+ hours a week, I’m not working those long hours anymore. If they don’t want a little give and take then I don’t either. Problem solved.

IMO, you are just heading in the wrong direction.
Just letting it fester and not finding out what the rules aka policy is just going to make you more miserable.
Talk to someone in authority and if then you do not like or consider it unfair then do what you need to do.
If you are just getting what some HR slub says then you are never going to get satisfaction.
Kind of how shit gets started and grows on the Internet ...getting out of control for no valid reason.
However, I understand how you feel but IMO this can be fixed...properly.
Good Luck

This thread is akin to the person who posts that his/her car isn't working, and when everyone asks what the problem is and the make/model, the OP goes radio silent. Very frustrating when trying to help.

I think EVERYONE is asking the pointed question here, lunchbox, and you have yet to provide an answer. So...

Are you allotted PTO or other time off as compensation for when you're not at work for 'xx' reason(s)??

I believe that would be the best start to resolve the issue. It sounds like you don't know and/or haven't taken the time to find out. Good luck!!

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
This thread is akin to the person who posts that his/her car isn't working, and when everyone asks what the problem is and the make/model, the OP goes radio silent. Very frustrating when trying to help.

I think EVERYONE is asking the pointed question here, lunchbox, and you have yet to provide an answer. So...

Are you allotted PTO or other time off as compensation for when you're not at work for 'xx' reason(s)??

I believe that would be the best start to resolve the issue. It sounds like you don't know and/or haven't taken the time to find out. Good luck!!

Sorry for the radio silence, I was at work then I took my wife out to dinner.


I get PTO, I’ve never had to use PTO as a salaried exempt employee to go to a doctors appointment in my 25 year career. I’ve never even had to use pto for a sick day.

It’s a small company, there is no real handbook or multiple levels of management to go to. It used to be a cool place to work, didn’t pay the best but was relaxed a little. The best part was there was no HR. I despise HR people for the most part. I quit a well paying career working 20 years for Cummins because they let HR get way out of control.


I’ve been here almost six years and haven’t used pto for sick days or appointments. I work my ass off and post the best numbers in the company for my position. I don’t take breaks and take working lunches. All that stopped today. I took two breaks and a 30 min lunch and left right at 8 hours. This is the plan going forward. If they want to be stingy with their money I’ll be stingy with my time, simple as that. Working is basically whoring your time out for money anymore, I’m just going to take back a lot of my time.

I should note, I don’t care about the money, it’s the principal of the matter. If you’re not going to pay me overtime, expect me to work like a dog 10-12 hours a day, there has to be some give and take. I can’t be the one bending all of the time, they need to bend a little too. I’m salaried but on my check is says they pay me for 40 hours, so that’s what I’ll do. The money they will lose will be ten fold what they pay in for the entire day. If it’s going to hurt it’s not just going to hurt me. I’ll get paid the same to work 40 hours as I would 50-60, no sweat off my nuts.

I don’t believe what I’m asking of them is out of line, it’s common practice for the kind of work I do.

I’ve always felt like a job was an opportunity to create value for the company and be compensated accordingly. At a halfway decent place, there’d be opportunities for growth as well.

The tack you seem to be taking seems to be the exact opposite of that. It’s your job and your life, so you get to do it how you want, but I’d handle the situation differently. I’d find someone (my boss maybe) and discuss with him how much time I put in and why I think this should either be simply ignored, or treated as flex time / comp time / whatever and called good. If I didn’t get a satisfactory resolution, I wouldn’t play petty games like limiting my time to forty hours and making sure I get every minute of break time. Instead I’d use PTO to go and find another job, then turn in my notice. YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
I’ve always felt like a job was an opportunity to create value for the company and be compensated accordingly. At a halfway decent place, there’d be opportunities for growth as well.

The tack you seem to be taking seems to be the exact opposite of that. It’s your job and your life, so you get to do it how you want, but I’d handle the situation differently. I’d find someone (my boss maybe) and discuss with him how much time I put in and why I think this should either be simply ignored, or treated as flex time / comp time / whatever and called good. If I didn’t get a satisfactory resolution, I wouldn’t play petty games like limiting my time to forty hours and making sure I get every minute of break time. Instead I’d use PTO to go and find another job, then turn in my notice. YMMV.

My boss is the one saying it’s a new requirement because of lni reporting which is a complete lie. He knows how many hours I work and exactly how much value I bring, I just got a real good review earlier this month. My boss is just a tool, only care about himself and looking good to his boss. Literally this is the last part of my bosses email when I asked him why this is happening and why he isn’t going to bat for his team “not a battle worth fighting for me, best of luck to you”. Dudes a piece of shit. I only stay because experience has taught me that asshole bosses like this don’t last long.

I don’t think taking back 10-20 hours a week is petty, but I do believe trying to nickel and dime a guy that gets a 40 hour paycheck that works many more hours than that pretty damn petty.

I’m going to work the 40 hours and hunt for a new job. I live in s rural area so it’s not a quick deal to find decent employment but I’ll do it. Zero chance I commute to Portland again like I did when I was at Cummins, that city is a disaster.

Thanks for clearing up the PTO question. [thumbs up]

This isn't a grey area. It's ludicrous to pretend you can deduct two hours for a salary employee who routinely works 50 hour weeks...it's just morally wrong. He's already settled upon the proper response...work a 40 hour week going forward. It sounds like a boss who doesn't understand much about human nature and possibly a company looking for employee retention problems.

When you to excepted this job, was it described as a 40ish hour a week job? Or does the pay reflect working 50-60 hours weekly?
I believe salary jobs benefit companies over employees 90% of the time.
I’m wondering how your employer will adjust to the “new” working culture. As in never work over 40 hours. Ok to be late daily. If your family needs you for anything, just leave and still get full paycheck.

I think I'd use that extra time you are saving each day to work on finding another job. You've already discussed the situation with your boss and gave him an opportunity to fix the pay issue. It sounds like he chose not to, so I'd work on finding better pay and better treatment elsewhere.

Sometimes if an employer finds an employee works hard, puts in extra hours like a 50 hr week, they will reward that person by making that part of their normal job and nothing else. It can quietly be added as part of the employees normal responsibilities. That employee is being viewed as a commodity to be used to get work done and save the cost of hiring someone else.

With different management and company culture, that employee could be encouraged to grow, not get burned out, mentor others, etc. Work to live, don't live to work. If a job starts requiring extra hours not part of the job description and there's no flex, comp time, or such, looking for a better job may be the best use of those extra hours.

Seems like a lot of wasted energy and stress because the company decided to enforce PTO usage.
Why not just use the PTO now as required and go on with your day?
Working only 40 instead of the prior just shows a lack of enjoyment for the job, maybe that's the real problem.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
You seriously want to get a lawyer and sue for the two hours...

Not arguing about what you stated...

I suggest you factor in how large the company is and how many exempt employees there are. I say this because my former employer lost a class action lawsuit about unfair pay practices. I did not even know about the case until the proposed settlement was distributed.

I was awarded $10,000 for being a member of the class.

.

If you have a PTO system in place, docking you two hours of PAY is pretty much horseshit in my opinion.

They should have deducted two hours of PTO from your allotment. PTO is provided in "hours," so they can just charge two hours of PTO.

What you are describing is currently called "quiet quitting." Basically, it is meeting your job description, putting in your 40, and "meeting" expectations at review time.

I would document EVERYTHING, including the number of hours you worked in the past - if you know - and then save all of your reviews so you have them, not just on their HR system.

When you put in your 8/40 and depart for the day/week, and they ask you to stay to work more, you can ask what they will provide to you. It may not be cash or increased pay, but it was additional PTO for me. Not really, "in the books" PTO, rather if I worked 8 hours on a Saturday, I certainly was going to get 8 hours off sometime before the end of the year and that would not be charged to my official PTO.

"I really wish I could help you out. Unfortunately, I don't think I can take time away from non-work responsibilities this week. If you're able to trade any extra hours you need from me for additional PTO later this year, I may be able to work something out."

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
I think most companies with salaried employees require an accountable 40-hour workweek. The very definition of an exempt worker, otherwise known as a professional employee, is they work at least 40 hours per week, and sometimes more, without additional compensation.

This is wrong. Being a salaried employee means that you are trusted to work hours unless there are some specific exceptions (sick, military, jury duty).

You ARE NOT accountable for hours. The pluses are, you don't have to account for a 40 hour work week, the minuses are you don't get paid a nickel if you sometimes work more.

BUT, as you can see, expectations vary. And sometimes, oftentimes, the business thinks it's the Mandalorian, its way is THE WAY.

But the law is as I articulated it unless there is a contract that modifies it.

You have a good plan in place for you. My advice to others in this situation is to talk it out with your employer since talking is almost always the best. Explain your position and then hear their expectations and rationales of thought. If you or they don't like it, think about your options.

quote:

a salaried employee means that you are trusted to work hours unless there are some specific exceptions (sick, military, jury duty).

So, regarding your comment above, that "Being a salaried employee means that you are trusted to work hours unless there are some specific exceptions (sick, military, jury duty)." ...

What do you mean that you are "trusted to work hours" - what does that mean specifically ? I don't think I understand your definition.