I can't speak to the other alternate events, but a 25 minute 1000 meter swim is very doable for even a somewhat below average swimmer.

That's an average of 1.25 minutes per 50 meter lap. (One length in an Olympic pool, or down and back in a typical short course lap pool.)

There is a funny US Army fan Facebook page that had this posted recently

I just cant wait for 2 years and all the fear, sniveling and silly predictions to pass and the ACFT to just be the new norm. It will result in a more well-rounded fit force with far fewer injuries namely because soldiers will be forced to develop some real pulling strength and real 3d core strength. Something there is no reason to have to do for the current APFT that feeds into back injury causing muscle imbalance and weakness.

Like PossibleZombie said, it isn’t hard. The most failed event is the leg tuck, not being able to touch both knees to both elbows while hanging from a bar...even once. Takes real core and upper back strength, you either have it or need to develop it.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

I just cant wait for 2 years and all the fear, sniveling and silly predictions to pass and the ACFT to just be the new norm.

I don't think it's going to be the "new norm" though.

There are a whole lot of issues with this test that even the Marines are shaking their heads at.

My prediction? It's a giant clusterfuck and when too many people start getting kicked out and the Army's numbers take a beating and recruiting gets affected, this will quietly be changed back to some sort of test that takes some from the old and some from the new.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

It won't even take that much - if it is true that the vast majority of women cannot pass, they will either water down or ditch the test. . .

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Soldiers on a running profile can do a 15 kilometer stationary bike ride...completed within 25 minutes maximum.

That comes out to 36 KPH which translates to just a tad over 22 MPH...that's a pretty good clip. In my cycling "hay-day" I was able to maintain a 20 MPH pace without being in a pace line and that was challenging; but that was over long distances like 80 or 100 KM. 15K, or 9.3 miles, in 25 minutes is not necessarily a piece o' cake, but it's all in the training. They're not going to train to cycle a Metric Century; they'll train to just blast out the required distance in the allotted time, so in that sense, it might not be that big of a challenge. Sprinter vs. Marathoner mind-set...

Either way...God bless our men and women in arms.

Tempted to just post a to all the negativity. We’ll see either way.

The steepest performance curve is always to be had at the beginning of training a new exercise or movement pattern. The body adapts fast...and they only have to pass, minimums of which at the lowest MOS performance level are pretty damn easy, like 1 leg tuck, 140# trap bar deadlift, the “sprint drag carry” can be done at a brisk walk to meet the minimum time.

Or, it will break the Army reducing end strength by 50% making us vulnerable to even more Russian hackers!!!!!

old thread resurrected -- nice !

many years out of the Army and agree the APFT should be 'enhanced' but I am not a fan at all of the new 'combat fitness test'

all they need to do is add a ~10k ruck march w/helmet, equipment, weapon and 35lb ruck for time and call it good. heck, do it at night to add to the difficulty / stress...

No specialized equipment, new exercises, change to any current training etc. Too many TDY / attached / detached / small units out there to effectively make the acft a fair requirement.

too many people think the APFT is supposed to be the be-all, end-all measurement of fitness. of course it's not and never has been. but it is a decent snapshot. add the ruck event in and it would be even better.

ACFT is clearly a case where a fitness geek (read cross-fitter) got put in charge and wanted to make his mark on the Army.


-------------------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
old thread resurrected -- nice !

many years out of the Army and agree the APFT should be 'enhanced' but I am not a fan at all of the new 'combat fitness test'

all they need to do is add a ~10k ruck march w/helmet, equipment, weapon and 35lb ruck for time and call it good. heck, do it at night to add to the difficulty / stress...

No specialized equipment, new exercises, change to any current training etc. Too many TDY / attached / detached / small units out there to effectively make the acft a fair requirement.

too many people think the APFT is supposed to be the be-all, end-all measurement of fitness. of course it's not and never has been. but it is a decent snapshot. add the ruck event in and it would be even better.

ACFT is clearly a case where a fitness geek (read cross-fitter) got put in charge and wanted to make his mark on the Army.


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Read the supporting documents, this is not a Cross fit attack. One of the development teams actually got into a major pissing match with cross fit over the number of injuries crossfit has caused. One of my buddies was in that VTC. Some of the units and gyms did embrace crossfit, trx, P90X, etc, but the Army did not.

As Strambo mentioned injury reduction was part of the ACFT design.

The ACFT is supposed to replicate parts of combat. For example, the sprint, drag, carry is supposed to simulate sprinting to cover, carrying ammo and dragging a casualty. The T pushup is getting into and out of the prone firing position. The deadlift simulates lifting equipment or a body, etc. I don't know what the medicine ball simulates.



I don't know if the road march requirement is still in AR-350-1, I lost track with the recent revisions, but there used to be an annual requirement for a 12 mile road march. I believe it's still a requirement in the IN Divisions. When I was in 101st , we had a division requirement for an annual 20 miler. We'd do it at night in armor, with weapons in a lose formation. It was actually easier at night because it was cooler.

Someone leaked the data.

30% of the men fail the test.

84% of the women fail the test

https://www.dailywire.com/news...st-official-responds

quote:

Originally posted by CD228

I don't know what the medicine ball simulates.

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
Someone leaked the data.

30% of the men fail the test.

84% of the women fail the test

https://www.dailywire.com/news...st-official-responds

I still fail to see the problem? So it had a high failure rate the first time they tried it, big surprise . Now, they have 1 year to figure out how to touch both knees to both elbows...once! If GI Jane (or Joe) cant do that once after a year of training for it, then GTFO of my Army.

All the tasks are related to attributes of strength or energy systems needed for combat. The power throw is about generating power from the ground up, a useful attribute, but I don’t know why the backwards overhead motion was chosen? The other events are pretty easy to figure out what they are measuring and why for anyone with a formal fitness background.

The APFT was atrocious and the feet held sit ups resulted in a very high injury rate (neck and back.)

I’ve never had a gym membership in my life and I'm 45 now. Always trained for well rounded fitness, upper and lower body pushing/pulling strength, core strength, strength-endurance and aerobic plus anaerobic energy systems. I crush the APFT, scored well over 500/600 the first time I tried the ACFT and my workouts are typically just 20-30 mins 3-4x per week, usually just body weight with no equipment beyond a pull up bar. I didn’t mention the preceding to brag, but to illustrate how easy it can be if you train smart. I’m far from a Crossfit workout-a-holic. I learned efficient/effective fitness principles so I could spend as little time working out as possible!

It does not have to be hard, time consuming or equipment intensive...it just requires doing things smarter than push up, sit up, run.

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
Someone leaked the data.

30% of the men fail the test.

84% of the women fail the test

https://www.dailywire.com/news...st-official-responds

we should take bets on how long it takes for the AFCT to be rescinded and made to disappear

---------------------------------------

Revisiting this after it only took the Army 2 years to figure out this new PT test was a dumb idea and isn't working out.

I predict the whole thing will be cancelled now.

It look them all this time to figure out what the average person with half a functioning brain would be able to know within 5 minutes of reading about this test?

US Army may nix gender-neutral fitness tests as women overwhelmingly fail, says biological differences matter

Whoops....that didn't age well did it?

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I just cant wait for 2 years and all the fear, sniveling and silly predictions to pass and the ACFT to just be the new norm. It will result in a more well-rounded fit force with far fewer injuries namely because soldiers will be forced to develop some real pulling strength and real 3d core strength. Something there is no reason to have to do for the current APFT that feeds into back injury causing muscle imbalance and weakness.

Well Covid and lack of equipment distro had it put on a 1.5 year hold, currently there is no requirement to pass any PT test until at least October.

If they nix the gender neutral part....we'll be interesting cunundrum where all combat positions are now open to women and a test specifically designed to assess the physical attributes needed for combat....being revised with lower standards for women...

From the article, I'm with her:

quote:

In February, U.S. Army Captain Kristen Griest, the Army's first female infantry officer, said that the gender-neutral test "should be scored the same for men and women."

"The entire purpose of creating a gender-neutral test was to acknowledge the reality that each job has objective physical standards to which all soldiers should be held, regardless of gender," she said at the time. "The intent was not to ensure that women and men will have an equal likelihood of meeting those standards. Rather, it is incumbent upon women who volunteer for the combat arms profession to ensure they are fully capable and qualified for it. To not require women to meet equal standards in combat arms will not only undermine their credibility, but also place those women, their teammates, and the mission at risk."

I thought we were all equal?

I've met some female Soldiers who were absolute PT beasts but I've also met some male Soldiers who were PT turds.

I'd say I've met fewer female beasts than male turds when it comes to strength based exercises.

But how do pregnant women fare in the PT tests, particularly when wearing their newly issued maternity uniforms?

I find it hilarious/sad/sickening/ridiculous that everyone wants to be seen and treated as equals but with a caveat that they have their owns standards, rules, scoring, grooming, uniform etc..

I have said it before and i will say it again--->
The days of the people serving for the greater good, or the team are over.

My dad always said - - > You serve in the Army, the Army does not serve you.

That is over also.

Now it is all about me, me, me.....

I cannot believe that they are considering the plank over the leg tuck. Let's water it down even farther. Hell, why even have a PT test or standards. It seems everyone makes them up as they go anyways.

Now the tax payers are on the hook for how many millions of dollars of PT gear/equipment.

I have about 9 months left on this hitch and then I am going to extend for another year or two so I can switch over to a combat engineer unit. Unless I can deploy the next couple of years I am done. 12 years + was a good run.

I just don't have the patience or stomach anymore for it. It is more a pain in the arse than anything. The Peace time Army sucks and I see it getting worse. ( I saw it in the early 90s)

They also eliminated the photo requirement for promotion boards because there could be "bias."

Yeah when some fat boy captain can't pass height/weight and he's testing the tensile strength of his service uniform, he should be promoted to major because the board won't be able to see that he displays little military bearing and fitness.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Revisiting this after it only took the Army 2 years to figure out this new PT test was a dumb idea and isn't working out.

I predict the whole thing will be cancelled now.

It look them all this time to figure out what the average person with half a functioning brain would be able to know within 5 minutes of reading about this test?

US Army may nix gender-neutral fitness tests as women overwhelmingly fail, says biological differences matter

Whoops....that didn't age well did it?

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I just cant wait for 2 years and all the fear, sniveling and silly predictions to pass and the ACFT to just be the new norm. It will result in a more well-rounded fit force with far fewer injuries namely because soldiers will be forced to develop some real pulling strength and real 3d core strength. Something there is no reason to have to do for the current APFT that feeds into back injury causing muscle imbalance and weakness.

Strambo I'm sorry your 2019 post didn't age well.

What a dumpster fire. Saw this coming a mile away for several reasons.

Of course I do agree with the female Captain's comments. She sounds like a voice of reason from the female side.

Problem is -- for the test to be gender neutral -- it likely means it will be LOWERED for men to accommodate women. BAD NEWS.


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