I drove 18 wheelers hauling Hazmat for 35 years with zero accidents.
Didn't mean shit to them. The company was sold five times while I was there.
They babied the new drivers but the turnover was still almost 100 percent. They treated the old timers like crap.
But when you are 50 or 55 years old, what are you going to do? Start somewhere else and be at the bottom
of the totem pole and work nights and weekends? They had you by the shorthairs and they knew it.
There is no loyalty.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
I do agree that companies aren’t doing as much to retain. If I had hired into my current employer 3 years earlier, I’d have a pension. Now I just have a Roth 401k.

My wife used to have a pension with her employer. Then they wer bought by a bigger company and her pension was converted into a one-time 401k contribution.

I think it depends. I'm part of the group that does hiring at my department and administers the CA POST PELLETB (basically the aptitude test for peace officer) regionally.

Looking back over the last five years I will say these rules seem to apply:
- Our "traditional" candidates (21 year old males who grew up and went to high school locally) typically stay.
- Our "lateral" candidates (worked somewhere else before) are much more likely to go somewhere else.
- Our "non-traditional" candidates (people that don't fit into the above) are much more likely to either not make it through training or stay a couple years and then leave.

There has been a huge push for non-traditional candidates, but we are still hiring plenty of the traditional ones. Their biggest struggle where I live is to find a place to live they can afford.

We treat our folks well. If we didn't we would lose a lot more people. Our younger hires these days can be more picky because everyone is hiring.

This shitty market, an overall decline in the quality of corporate leadership and corporate greed are responsible. I got laid off in Feb. and they are already hiring for a position I was applying for internally, but now I can never apply again based on the severance agreement.

There is NO loyalty anymore. The only time I've every changed positions is when they screw with my comp repeatedly, fire/lose great leaders and replace them with moronic yes men, or leave me no room to advance in my career.

On top of that, they will underpay or refuse to give raises until you leave, then pay a premium to replace you. It makes no sense.

I’m about to get laid off next month after almost 19 years. A mega company bought our company and my boss retired. As im searching for similar jobs I am finding I am very well compensated. My boss had a loyal team with people who stayed 10-20 years. She always told us she fought for the max pay of the scale and max bonuses. And it seems she wasn’t bullshitting us.

I underwrite loans and I look at job histories all the time. Lots of people with real short time on many jobs. If you’re working for a huge company with no stock options that will vest, the reality is you come in at x pay rate and you’re gonna get your 3% raise only way to really increase it is to leave. So I don’t blame them in most cases.

Sorry to hear that ElToro.

With the lack of loyalty from companies, I suspect we'll see the 2 week notice become a thing of the past. After all they'll not likely give you any notice either.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
With the lack of loyalty from companies, I suspect we'll see the 2 week notice become a thing of the past. After all they'll not likely give you any notice either.

that's the interesting thing. In most cases there isn't a legal requirement for 2 week notice.

It's just nice to provide this in case you ever want to go back to that company

In my younger years I was a pay check chaser. Pay me with benefits or fuck you. It worked out in my favor. I did take pay cuts to stay employed during the dot com bubble burst also during the mortgage crisis. I'm currently happy where I'm at and I've been here 10 years. Nice pay, nice work-life balance. I'm still of the opinion that you can love the company but the company will never love you. Ever. Work hard and get paid for what you do. It's a 50-50 relationship and when it's not GTFO.

It's wide spread and caused by rules most large companies have in place. I was at my last employer 29 years but the last 10 or so was because of the "Golden Handcuffs". Too much pension, time off and other benefits to make a change late in my career.
The way corporate America has gone to 401K vs Pension is a big driver. Combine that with really low loyalty from Corporate down and it's no wonder employees have no loyalty.

My focus all my life was to find a job with great benefits followed by pay. Didn't find that until I turned 42 and moving from Michigan to Texas. Been retired now for 7 yrs with excellent retirement benefits. Yes I bounced from job to job in my early years.

At one time someone who had 5 jobs in 10 years would not get hired - it showed they could not keep a job. Now younger people jump from job to job, with only a year or two at each job. It is not detrimental anymore and more people are doing it. I stayed at my job for 22 years and finally jumped ship a few years ago. I intended to be there 40 but the workplace got worse and worse and it was no longer worth staying there.

Many companies are effectively encouraging job hopping with some of their own employment policies. For example, vesting in a 401K for company match used to commonly be 5 years. Now it 2 years or even immediate full vesting. Vacation time is another one. Used to be common to start at 2 weeks and work up to 3, 4 or even more weeks on a graduated scale based on longevity. Now some companies are floating the "unlimited" PTO idea (which actually saves them money). Add in the effect of so many toxic corporate cultures, and it's no surprise there is no loyalty on either side of the employment relationship.

quote:

Originally posted by Perception:
1. Employees have realized that the days of employer loyalty are long gone, and they are one bad earnings report away from being out of a job, regardless of how well they've performed. It's not exactly a culture that breeds loyalty.

2. Your boss isn't going to give you a 10-15% raise every year, but you can negotiate that while interviewing for other positions. If the new employer can't do it, you stay in your current job. If they can, you jump ship and start the process all over again. Mobility is the fastest way to move up, and now that many positions are remote you can get a job across the country without moving your family.

This is exactly what I came here to say.

When the steel, auto, textile, et al. industries all exported to overseas and destoryed the cities the modern workforce simply changed.

My previous boss, had a philosophy that he would not pay more for a job just because time had passed. He said that to us. But new hires were brought in at competitive rates. It created a pretty toxic and demoralizing system. Then they started a "you matter" campaign. People started tagging the posters with "you dont matter"

the days of multi generational hires working for a company started dying in the 60's and 70's.

Because companies don't give a shit about their people. Management is horrible in so many places, leaders are few and far between.

A company will sell you out and outsource your job to an Indian for 1/4 of what you get paid or close your plant and move operations to China.

The loyalty of the employee should only be to themselves and their families.

I’ve been told that business have a recruitment budget that far exceeds the retention budget. Makes no sense. Training is expensive. If you’re letting someone go to hire another at the rate the original employee was asking, what’s the point?

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
I’ve been told that business have a recruitment budget that far exceeds the retention budget. Makes no sense. Training is expensive. If you’re letting someone go to hire another at the rate the original employee was asking, what’s the point?

Keeps the HR and Training people employed.

Across the board. No loyalty from staff breeds lack of trust from employer. It does become a chicken egg scenario.

Also, I wonder if they feel like the gov will take care of them later. I had 1 employee hire in just to earn up enough money for a ticket to Fl. Seriously, that’s what she told me when I contacted her to see why she wasn’t at the job on time during her training in period. Did great on interview, good refs, etc.. maybe drugs? It just made no sense.

I started in IT in 1980, I didn't stay more that 3 years at any job until 1997.

My first job had time-in grade advancement for the first two promotions. After that it pretty much required someone to retire for advancement and that was going to take a long time.

IT jobs were pretty easy to find until 2000. I retired as a Senior Vice President at a financial services company so it pretty much worked out.

It’s not just younger people anymore. I hopped a bit before I graduated college because that was the most effective way to get a raise. Got the typical bag boy/stocker job at a local grocery store. Closed most weekend nights, never missed a shift, outperformed every single person there and never got a raise. Went two miles down the road and got 40 cents more to start.

Of the serious post graduate jobs, I’ve had 5 in the space of 30 years. Left the first because I moved out of state. Second job the business collapsed. Third turned into a toxic hell. Fourth I left for my current job because it was a $5+ raise, better schedule and 12 miles less to drive. I’ve got 10 years to retirement. Really hope this job takes me over the finish line.