First a Tesla hits a tractor trailer, then within days another hits a State Trooper patrol vehicle on the side of the road in an accident investigation.

I'm not too sure about this auto drive feature.

https://www.clickondetroit.com...ichigan-tesla-crash/

If autodrive at fault, I thought driver is still able to prevent accidents. Unless he wasn't paying attention in which case he should forever no longer be allowed to drive.

If driver at fault, then tesla is just incidental.

Yes, ultimately. But Autopilot encourages/rewards inattentiveness, by allowing inattentive driving to still be successful most of the time, thereby reinforcing the users' false sense of security.

The Autopilot feature is not at fault, certainly not alone, but Autopilot contributes to the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

Autodrive encourages/rewards inattentiveness, by allowing inattentive driving to still be successful most of the time, thereby reinforcing the users' false sense of security.

Makes it easier to pay attention to your texting.

I think there should be no such thing as "Autopilot where you still have to pay attention"

Either the car can drive itself - or you need to drive the car. There can't be any middle ground and an expectation that it will all be okay. This current system where the car drives, but you're supposed to be watching what it does is just asking for trouble.

My neighbor is a medical salesman. He was talking about how much more productive he would be with a Tesla so I inquired about what he meant. He was considering buying one so he could drive around Houston (4th largest city in US and full of aggressive drivers) in autodrive and be working on his laptop between appointments.

I convinced him that was unsafe so he switches his plan to using his tablet. I convinced him that was equally unsafe so he switches his plan to smart phone. He wouldn't budge on that plan, but so far doesn't own a Tesla...

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
First a Tesla hits a tractor trailer, then within days another hits a State Trooper patrol vehicle on the side of the road in an accident investigation.

I'm not too sure about this auto drive feature.

https://www.clickondetroit.com...ichigan-tesla-crash/

I have never been in a car with autopilot and not really interested, but to be fair, there are thousands of accidents a week with people driving.

Of course an auto-drive system is going to encourage inattentiveness. Indeed, the technology itself is being touted as a stepping-stone towards fully autonomous vehicles. To expect a driver to maintain the same level of vigilance in a Tesla as when driving a non-assisted vehicle is simply a pie in the sky dream. Do commercial airline pilots maintain the same level of attentiveness while on autopilot as they do when they are fully in control of the aircraft? No, they don't stare at the six pack or out the window like they would with the aircraft under their direct control. It's just not realistic.

Let's face it, people who pay for these systems are going to use them. Having said that, I'd still bet that the autonomous package prevents more accidents than it causes. Is the standard going to be 100% perfection, or just some number better than pure human control?

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

Having said that, I'd still bet that the autonomous package prevents more accidents than it causes. Is the standard going to be 100% perfection, or just some number better than pure human control?

I agree with this.

I've used the autopilot function on many commutes, and as a driver aid, it is amazing. I keep my hands on the wheel, and let the vehicle do the lane centering and maintaining following distance from the vehicle ahead of me. This allows me to pay more attention to obstacles further ahead, and to maintain better awareness of the vehicles beside and behind me. In short, it helps offload the workload.

Is this the best solution? Maybe not, but I'd rather be in traffic with Teslas all around me than the current situation of people ignoring the road, looking at their phone, and driving with their knees.

To finish my thought, if the standard is simply an improvement over human operation, then I don't see why it's news every time a Tesla has an accident somewhere in the world. There have been several fatalities on the roads within a few miles of my house just this week, and I don't see that making national news. Why is it so sensational every time Tesla drive assist has an accident? It's not like it's an airplane or the space shuttle. Maybe it's just that it is new technology, and people dislike change, so they feel the need to magnify the new technology's failures.

If you really dislike future tech, then do what I did. Buy an old vehicle, fiddle with the carb and points on occasion, and buy a big bore rifle with elephant solids (to kill terminators).

I love how the article immediately has to praise Biden, frick me.

However, as a human I can hardly drive past a police car with its full light show going without crashing straight into it like a moth to a flame. So I blame the stupid flashing lights and strobes on those things. The poor tesla.

Some of these departments its like they are in competition with each other for how many blinky strobes they can put on one vehicle.

The fundamental cause is likely driver inattentiveness. If autopilot is further encouraging that, then it’s a problem. Ignoring flaws in the tech, the technology itself is not to blame per se as the driver is wholly responsible for safe driving (unless there is some flaw where even driver intervention can’t avoid an accident).

That being said, I view the autopilot as a stupidity enhancer. It makes clueless drivers that much more dangerous. I see no evidence that autopilot is helping to avoid accidents. That sounds like tech rationalization.

Btw, I thought collision avoidance is built in separate from autopilot. Why wasn’t imminent collision detected and brakes and or steering applied? Even my stupid Toyota will do things like pretension the belts, sound off warnings, apply brakes if it thinks a collision is imminent.

quote:

That being said, I view the autopilot as a stupidity enhancer. It makes clueless drivers that much more dangerous. I see no evidence that autopilot is helping to avoid accidents. That sounds like tech rationalization.

“In the 3rd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.59 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.42 million miles driven." -Forbes article 2020


I think the accidents are in spite of autopilot, not because of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

“In the 3rd quarter, we registered one accident for every 4.59 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. For those driving without Autopilot but with our active safety features, we registered one accident for every 2.42 million miles driven." -Forbes article 2020


I think the accidents are in spite of autopilot, not because of it.

I know you’re aware of how statistics can be manipulated to tell any desired story, especially in the absence of normalizations and controlled data. Let alone a bought media driving an agenda.

Let’s be clear. You know I’m trending to buy one. That being said, I believe there are a lot of things disagreeable related to autopilot. Not all of them technical.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:. . . I'd still bet that the autonomous package prevents more accidents than it causes. . .

I wonder how that might work from a legal perspective.

"Dear Tesla Driver, due to your lack of attention/lack of skill, you would have caused a likely fatal accident, but Tesla auto pilot saved your butt".

Vs, "Dear Tesla Driver, due to hardware/software glitches, your auto pilot Tesla just caused a major accident".

drivers at fault

autopilot or not

the fact that its a Tesla is irrelevant

driver inattentiveness is the sole fault

No worries, Uncle Joe has this under control.

"It's another sign that the safety agency under President Joe Biden may be taking a stronger look"

There’s no such thing as autopilot right now. There’s driver assist and it does quite well but there’s no way to program for every conceivable variable so until the entire fleet of cars is seeing and talking to each other it won’t be considered auto pilot with no liability on the drivers.

quote:

I keep my hands on the wheel, and let the vehicle do the lane centering and maintaining following distance from the vehicle ahead of me.

That is no different than the system in my Ford Explorer. The land keeping and land centering with the adaptive cruise control allows driving without input...most of the time. the system depends on the cameras sensing the lane markings. At an offramp or when the marking disappear, it drops off line

Certainly not sufficient for inattentive driving. It will also warn if the hands come off the wheel for a extended period.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

Do commercial airline pilots maintain the same level of attentiveness while on autopilot as they do when they are fully in control of the aircraft? No, they don't stare at the six pack or out the window like they would with the aircraft under their direct control.

Apples, oranges. There's a world of difference between operating a road vehicle with traffic and other hard objects almost within arms reach, and flying an airplane that is separated from other traffic by a minimum of 1,000' vertically, and three miles at the same altitude.

I really believe that you (sigcrazy7) have a more difficult job driving your big OTR truck, than I do flying an airplane.