quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Ole Scooter, his car only turns to the left, doesn’t it?

Per various news reports there is a continuing "discussion" within the ATF about arm braces. I'm simply saying the handwriting is on the wall. That is the ATF could ban these devices at will and not one of us could do anything about it. Yeah JL you'll claim it's a violation so the 2nd. So feaking what, it will still be a ban. Now if you think you are so damned great you can reverse a decision like this why don't you get this whole SBR thing tossed on the trash heap where it belongs. Because the plain truth is that requiring an expensive license to own a particular type of firearm is also a violation of the 2nd.

So, how about it JL. You think you are the great all knowing one so here's a challenge for you. Get the whole SBR set of rules rescinded and have these weapons classified and ordinary Firearms, no tax stamp or registration required. Do that and I'll be impressed. Fail to do that and my view of you will remain as it is now.

Pass the hooch old Scooter, I wanna know what you are drinking there in Level 4000 quarantine!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I'm simply saying the handwriting is on the wall.

No, you're not. You're rumor mongoring and spreading conjecture and conspiracy theory.

If you have something actual to say, then back it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Per various news reports there is a continuing "discussion" within the ATF about arm braces.

Cite it. Put down your cards.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I'm simply saying the handwriting is on the wall.

No, you're not. You're rumor mongoring and spreading conjecture and conspiracy theory.

If you have something actual to say, then back it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
Per various news reports there is a continuing "discussion" within the ATF about arm braces.

Cite it. Put down your cards.

Guaranteed any new reports cited will just cite other news reports about it as confirmation and everything will eventually just lead back to Gaetz.

This exactly like when Warren claimed that Bernie told her a woman couldn't be President. An anonymous source inside her campaign confirmed it, CNN ran a story that they confirmed it through warren's people and then Warren point to how CNN verified her claim...

Circular reporting is a horrible thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Ole Scooter, his car only turns to the left, doesn’t it?

Per various news reports there is a continuing "discussion" within the ATF about arm braces. I'm simply saying the handwriting is on the wall. That is the ATF could ban these devices at will and not one of us could do anything about it. Yeah JL you'll claim it's a violation so the 2nd. So feaking what, it will still be a ban. Now if you think you are so damned great you can reverse a decision like this why don't you get this whole SBR thing tossed on the trash heap where it belongs. Because the plain truth is that requiring an expensive license to own a particular type of firearm is also a violation of the 2nd.

So, how about it JL. You think you are the great all knowing one so here's a challenge for you. Get the whole SBR set of rules rescinded and have these weapons classified and ordinary Firearms, no tax stamp or registration required. Do that and I'll be impressed. Fail to do that and my view of you will remain as it is now.

So you’re not aware of the current decision from the ATF? You can shoulder a brace without a problem as long as no changes are made to the brace to make it easier to shoulder.

I shouldn’t have to register anything. A pistol stock allows me to do just that...without waiting months to use my property.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
IMO the whole SBR thing is DUMB. The simple truth is that Bad Guys don't typically carry a firearm with a full butt stock to do their dirty deeds, they go for something much easier to conceal like a regular old handgun.

However the law about not equipping a handgun with a butt stock without the correct permits has been around a lot of years and using an arm brace as a buttstock is a violation of that law. To be blunt if you want arm braces to remain a legal option then don't put it to your shoulder no matter how "cool" you think you are when you do that. I don't care a bit if you saw it in a movie or some youtube video, it is illegal. In addition your insistence on violating this law could result in the total ban of arm braces and we have a significant number of fellow shooters who actually NEED an Arm Brace to be able to shoot a handgun. SO, KNOCK IT OFF.

Go fuck yourself.

quote:

[U]sing an arm brace as a buttstock is a violation of that law.

That is fundamentally untrue.

The original AFT ruling was that it was not illegal was based on the long-standing precedent that if there was a feature of the gun that was considered illegal, such as its ability to fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger, it was that feature that made it illegal, not how it was used. If I have an unregistered M14 rifle, the fact that it’s capable of automatic fire is what makes it illegal to possess, even if I never fire it except in the semiautomatic mode, or even if I don’t possess the switch that makes automatic fire possible. An unregistered silencer is illegal to possess regardless of whether I ever attach it to a firearm.

The ATF could have banned the “braces” by simply saying they were an illegal feature: i.e., that they were buttstocks that cannot be attached to handguns just as it’s illegal to put a vertical foregrip on a handgun without NFA registration. The agency didn’t do that, however, because they were developed and can be used to make it easier to fire certain handguns with one hand. Once that ruling was made, then what applied to the device was the precedent that because the feature was permitted, there was nothing more to consider; that is, it didn’t matter how the shooter used the feature.

And therefore what the ATF did by reversing its initial ruling that braces were legal and saying that they couldn’t be used to shoulder the pistol was to ignore and overturn what had always been its policy to not try to regulate how a feature was used—something that would be virtually impossible to enforce. “Yes, it’s okay to own that unregistered machine gun as long as you never fire it in the automatic mode.” Right.

Fortunately someone there came to his senses and changed the ruling back to what it was originally—and is to this day. Could that change in the future? Sure. All it would take is a ruling that the brace is a buttstock that can’t be attached to a handgun, just as other buttstocks cannot be attached to handguns under rules that have been in effect (I assume) since 1934. The ATF has done that sort of thing several times in the past, and most recently with its ruling on bump stocks: legal one day; illegal the next. But until it does, braces on handguns are legal and can be used any way the shooter wishes to.

Keep in mind as well that handguns are legally defined by the ATF as firearms that were designed to be fired with one hand: “The term ‘Pistol’ means a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand ….”

If we were to apply the same logic that a brace couldn’t be shouldered because that wasn’t its intent, then it would be just as illegal to fire a pistol (handgun) by holding it with two hands.

Just to back up what everyone else but Scooter is saying: https://www.80percentarms.com/...-an-ar-pistol-brace/

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Just to back up what everyone else but Scooter is saying:...

No need to back up with anything. The link to the direct letter by the ATF, dated March 21, 2017, posted in post #10 by sns3guppy is all you need. Nothing has changed since then.

And yes, Gaetz is just grandstanding.