quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

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Originally posted by Deqlyn:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
A country of over 300 million and we can't muster enough players to beat teams from countries with a mere fraction of our population. wTF!?!

Not in a world were baseball, basketball, football dominate. Well be good in 20 years.

That's a tired excuse from 20 years ago.

Our players are physically the same as other top players around the world. The difference is the level of instruction, the effectiveness in scouting and the ability to cultivate a talent pipeline. The pay-to-play bullshit in this country has to go. There's more to it than that but, when European soccer clubs are starting to set-up club teams in the US to mine our young players...there's a problem.

I think there is still a lot to it. Many naturally talented American athletes play baseball, American football, and basketball, and not soccer (or rugby).

I do think American men's soccer should be better than it is, even given that reality, but I don't think that the competition from the big three American sports can be discounted as a factor.

quote:

Originally posted by slyguy:
Seriously - no broadcast available. Major butt hurt first world problem!?

Or is this a sign of soccer in the US?

It was broadcast by beIN Sports, which is channel 620 on DirecTV. Not sure how widely beIN is available.

I agree with Arena needing to go. Again. He was insufferably arrogant during the post-game press conference last night.

I would like to see someone besides Sunil Gulati running the US Soccer Federation. I don't think he's done a very good job with youth soccer. And the Klinsmann deal was a mess.

Maybe this loss will do for US soccer what the their humiliation in the Euro Cup in 2000 did for Germany, and the US will do a major overhaul.

I think there's enough raw material for a good overhaul to be worthwhile between now and the 2019 CONCACAF Gold Cup.

Let me ask the question. If you pay against a terrible player in X sport, do you get better? The answer is always no. You have to play against quality teams to consistently to get better. In all sports and especially in soccer.

The best players in the world play for the EPL, bundesliga, and la liga. They consistently play against solid people day after day. Now the question is, how many americans play in those leagues? And there you have your answer as to why we suck and we need more time.

One more point, you have to actually get gametime too. Remember chicharito? He was a great asset to mexico in the world cup in South Africa. Then he went to ManU and sat the bench and turned to shit. Didnt even play in the following world cup if I remember right. So to think that a good player can excel without playing regularly against top level competition, is folly.

Theres a reason old worthless EPL guys like Frank Lampard amd many others can "retire" and play for 5 more years in US soccer. They are just better skilled and dont need quite the legs and youth to be good like in the EPL.

If you're a talented athlete say at the high school level, can succeed in multiple sports, and think you can make money at it (or more likely your parents think you might have a shot), what sport would you pursue in the US?

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by Deqlyn:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
A country of over 300 million and we can't muster enough players to beat teams from countries with a mere fraction of our population. wTF!?!

Not in a world were baseball, basketball, football dominate. Well be good in 20 years.

That's a tired excuse from 20 years ago.

Our players are physically the same as other top players around the world. The difference is the level of instruction, the effectiveness in scouting and the ability to cultivate a talent pipeline. The pay-to-play bullshit in this country has to go. There's more to it than that but, when European soccer clubs are starting to set-up club teams in the US to mine our young players...there's a problem.

I think there is still a lot to it. Many naturally talented American athletes play baseball, American football, and basketball, and not soccer (or rugby).

I do think American men's soccer should be better than it is, even given that reality, but I don't think that the competition from the big three American sports can be discounted as a factor.

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Originally posted by BBMW:
If you're a talented athlete say at the high school level, can succeed in multiple sports, and think you can make money at it (or more likely your parents think you might have a shot), what sport would you pursue in the US?

That's a very small portion of the larger bigger problem...which is the pipeline and administrative apparatuses in this country when it comes to the overall game. We have plenty of talent in this country, with over 300 million people, a giant industry of sports marketing, a country that's more sports focused than any other, there's no shortage of desire amongst kids. What we have is a broken and poorly developed method of identifying, training and cultivating that talent, both on the kids side and the coaching/admin side. Pay-for-play is a problem. Kids who's parents came from soccer-centric countries have no pathway towards the profession because of the pay-for-play scam. How many youth leagues in this country are heavily Mexican or, Central American background kids...how many of them have made the the USMNT, let alone the U-18 or U-20 teams?

Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about soccer, but what is the 'pay for play' scam?

All sports youth leagues are pay to play to my knowledge, what's the deal or what do you mean by 'pay for play'?

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Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If you're a talented athlete say at the high school level, can succeed in multiple sports, and think you can make money at it (or more likely your parents think you might have a shot), what sport would you pursue in the US?

That's a very small portion of the larger bigger problem...which is the pipeline and administrative apparatuses in this country when it comes to the overall game. We have plenty of talent in this country, with over 300 million people, a giant industry of sports marketing, a country that's more sports focused than any other, there's no shortage of desire amongst kids. What we have is a broken and poorly developed method of identifying, training and cultivating that talent, both on the kids side and the coaching/admin side. Pay-for-play is a problem. Kids who's parents came from soccer-centric countries have no pathway towards the profession because of the pay-for-play scam. How many youth leagues in this country are heavily Mexican or, Central American background kids...how many of them have made the the USMNT, let alone the U-18 or U-20 teams?

I agree with a lot of what you said. My comment on the pay for play system, the money has to come from somewhere. If not from athlete's families then where? Like it or not money is a necessary evil to support athletes, coaches, training facilities, etc. Most countries in soccer have national support for this, the US doesn't.

My daughter competes in archery and it receives almost no national support. The US Olympic Committee even sold the training center in Chula Vista, CA to the city and costs for events and to attend as a resident athlete have skyrocketed. On the international stage, the South Koreans tend to dominate. Why? Archery is one of their national sports and they receive a lot of government and private industry money. If you're an elite archer in Korea, you can get a salaried job at Hyundai. You show up the factory every day and go out back and shoot arrows and train, that's your job.

So until the money is their to support athletes, their coaches and training facilities, the US will always be a second tier team in international competition. Soccer either has to get popular here to draw in fans and their money, or there has to be another way to fund athlete and team development.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by SgtGold:
This is why I only root for the girls. At leaet they win!

If I happen to watch any soccer, it's usually women's soccer. Unlike other sports, their action on the field is just as good as the mens, and they are much nicer to look at to boot.

Just saw the women's national team live in person in Cincinnati at a friendly a couple of weeks ago. That was GREAT soccer. Unlike what our men just did.

THORNS!!!! NWSL CHAMPIONS


https://postimg.org/image/qe1oyblv9/

See OP for more

Until properly trained youth coaches are developing the kids from 6 up - not the Dad who played varsity in high school - US soccer will never amount to much more than it is now.

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Originally posted by PR64:

I like Pulisic.....

I wonder if he is considering using his Croat grandparent to flip to the Croatian National Team?

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Originally posted by Blackmore:
Until properly trained youth coaches are developing the kids from 6 up - not the Dad who played varsity in high school - US soccer will never amount to much more than it is now.

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Originally posted by PR64:

I like Pulisic.....

I wonder if he is considering using his Croat grandparent to flip to the Croatian National Team?

Hey hey, us croats need a refresh, for such a small country they do okay. Thier team is still too political and too many oldbees sticking around.

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Originally posted by 2000Z-71:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
If you're a talented athlete say at the high school level, can succeed in multiple sports, and think you can make money at it (or more likely your parents think you might have a shot), what sport would you pursue in the US?

That's a very small portion of the larger bigger problem...which is the pipeline and administrative apparatuses in this country when it comes to the overall game. We have plenty of talent in this country, with over 300 million people, a giant industry of sports marketing, a country that's more sports focused than any other, there's no shortage of desire amongst kids. What we have is a broken and poorly developed method of identifying, training and cultivating that talent, both on the kids side and the coaching/admin side. Pay-for-play is a problem. Kids who's parents came from soccer-centric countries have no pathway towards the profession because of the pay-for-play scam. How many youth leagues in this country are heavily Mexican or, Central American background kids...how many of them have made the the USMNT, let alone the U-18 or U-20 teams?

I agree with a lot of what you said. My comment on the pay for play system, the money has to come from somewhere. If not from athlete's families then where? Like it or not money is a necessary evil to support athletes, coaches, training facilities, etc. Most countries in soccer have national support for this, the US doesn't.

The money for the lower levels should be coming from those professional leagues themselves, along with their sponsors (TV rights, clothing/shoes brands) and private benefactors. European teams operate on a trickle-down economic model, wherein that revenue is reinvested into the lower-levels; government subsidies are minimal if none compared to private investment. What most people don't understand is soccer is more of a technical game than an athletic game, it takes years and years for a player to develop an understanding of the sport well beyond their own physical gifts; if it was merely physical gifts, African teams would be dominating the world.

The US Soccer Fed, nor the MLS, do not have a very good pipelines for development, the pay-for-play system for youth in the US is simply the player is the main revenue stream for teams; not local pro teams, sponsors, fairs, car washes or, donations as it is elsewhere. Travel costs, uniforms, field usage, insurance, coaches pay...all are supported via the player's fee which can run anywhere from $400-1200+/season for a 12-year old child. Thus, because it's the player having to foot the bill, talent from the lower income gets over-looked, meanwhile mediocre talent from upper income brackets became the favored target. The collegiate pipeline isn't viable as the focus is student-athlete parity, and not athletic development...which is something that could be said about college football & basketball also.

And, if you're a talented soccer player in the US, becoming a football kicker leads to more reliable scholarship and pro money

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
The money for the lower levels should be coming from those professional leagues themselves, along with their sponsors (TV rights, clothing/shoes brands) and private benefactors.

Like I said, the money has to come from somewhere and right now it isn't there. Soccer in this country does not have the following it does in other countries where it is their national sport. The pro teams here struggle tomato their own expenses much less invest money in infrastructure , coaching, player development, etc.

Since the money's not there, it's got to come from somewhere else. That's how we get the pay to play system in the non major sports in this country.