The only reason MX is poor, is Mexican culture. Why would we want 100 million plus atheist Communist problems?

The hard working Christian Latinos you know, here, are the ones who’ve fled.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Mexico’s President Claudia Sheinbaum filed a controversial series of changes to the country’s constitution that would essentially block any investigation or action by foreign law enforcement agencies without their permission. The provisions could enable Mexico to criminally pursue anyone involved in those investigations. The changes come after the United States designated six Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations and announced the intent to eradicate them.



Sheinbaum has been harshly criticized by political opponents and news outlets in Mexico in the past for appearing to be trying to protect drug cartels from the U.S. government.

It would be a Military Action, not Law Enforcement, so you're kinda fucked lady...

But when there's a gun to your kids head, you're gonna do what you gotta do.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

How many innocent people would have to die?

Ermaaghaaadd scary emotional words.

How many of our citizens have to die before libs figure out that not using force hasn’t worked. How many Americans have died at the hands of Mexico and Mexicos corrupt policies?

If a “sovereign nation” is complicit in the widespread murder of another’s citizens, does a reasonable person then worry about how many people will perish making it stop? Certainly not. If Russia, China, Iran or North Korea were killing 20 Americans a day, would you be wringing your hands about their Sovereignty? Mexico is likely killing 5 or 10 times that amount each and every day. It’s not different than the Israel Hamas war. You can’t nice words yourself to victory with a third world state

Mexico is a terrorist state. Let’s get on with saving American lives already.

Not to split hairs, but more of a "Terrorist State", but definitely a "Narco-Terrorist State", more leaning towards "Failed State".



This is not directed at just Chellim1
The true amount of corruption and violence south of our border is mind-blowing.
Cartels run the government. Not in whole, but the majority.
The Police, any sort of Special Investigations Units at any level, Military, Key Politicians... All affected by the Cartels.
(Please don't think that shit ends at the Border! Actively or passively, that shit is here in America as well.)

The Cartels have the money and the weapons. If they don't have what they need, they buy it or threaten it until they get what the want.
Let's take Fentanyl: Cartels wanted more Fentanyl, so they went to China and started buying it. Then they told China to send some chemists to show them how to make it.
Let's jump into the "Way Back" machine to about 1991~1992. Soviet Union fell. How much was a decent KGB/Stasi-HVA agents getting paid? Enter Stage right, the Colombian Cartels, and they hired them for way more than the Agents were making a few months ago. Don't think things have changed in the 40+ years. The Cartels still have an excellent Intelligence network.

I'm typing this as I sit in my office, and have a baseball hat and a picture of a dude that's been long dead. Underneath it is a caption: "Plata o Plomo"
Loosely translated: The silver or the lead; you can take the money, or the bullet. You can take the bribe, or we'll kill everything you love, make you watch, then kill you.
Imagine you're a Mexican Cop, Sgt in the Mexican Army, Mayor, Investigator for some Mexican Intel / Law Enforcement agency, Politician, Car Dealer, Shop Owner... and confronted with that situation... So... Now you're working (actively or passively) for the Cartel.


Let's not just point the finger of culpability at Mexico and the Cartels.
If we (not you and I here on Sig Forum, but as Americans) weren't jamming that shit up our noses, into our veins or smoking it, we wouldn't be in this much trouble now, would we? America is the #1 (Numero Uno) purchaser of Illegal Narcotics. Once we deal with our little drug habit, dealing with Mexico will be so much (morally) easier.


"How many innocent people are going to die?!?!"
A fuck-ton. A literal fuck-ton. Get used to it.

One of the things we've (Law Enforcement) have been hearing from South of the Border is if we play the FAFO game, one of the ways we're going to "Find Out" is the Mexican Cartels are going to load up everything (Cocaine, Heroin, Meth) with a ton of Fentanyl. Do the quick math in your head and figure out how many overdoses the US is going to have in the first month.
(Hint: Thousands!)
And that's without pulling a trigger.

The cartels and all of the horror orbiting them are the reason consuming drugs affects everyone. I have read comments from drug use apologists declaring their drug use affects no one else. This has never been true but only recently been undeniable. Drug use sustains the cartels which are voracious predators. When they were smaller, their damage was local and invisible to most of us. But it’s a little shop of horrors and Audry II is insatiable. Twenty years ago when asked how private drug use affects me, I couldn’t say for sure, but I knew it did…..or would. Today I see it clearly but it feels like it’s almost too late absent extreme measures. The future has two possibilities depending on our choices in the liberating Trump window. I hope Trump is powerful enough to prune the cartels back to stubble.

How are things playing out with the ex-pat communities?
There's a number of communities where there's a significant chunk of Americans, Canadians and basically non-Hispanic ethnic groups who have retired or, are full-time residents, most well known is San Miguel de Allende.

quote:

"How many innocent people are going to die?!?!"
A fuck-ton. A literal fuck-ton. Get used to it.

One of the things we've (Law Enforcement) have been hearing from South of the Border is if we play the FAFO game, one of the ways we're going to "Find Out" is the Mexican Cartels are going to load up everything (Cocaine, Heroin, Meth) with a ton of Fentanyl. Do the quick math in your head and figure out how many overdoses the US is going to have in the first month.
(Hint: Thousands!)
And that's without pulling a trigger.

Just to be clear: I'm in favor of taking out the cartels. And I know it will take a lot of force, and a lot of people will die.

But I think the "How many innocent people would have to die?" question is being taken out of context.

It referred specifically to taking over the country, making it part of the USA.
Unless Mexico were to agree to become part of the USA, it would require war and occupation.

Here it is again:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Every time I’ve brought up annexing Mexico here, it’s been a whole bunch of posts essentially telling me that I’m an idiot, but actually taking control of the country is the only way we’ll have any hope of actually cleaning out the cartels and the corruption. Everything else is a half measure. Yes, I know it will never happen. Trump’s efforts are for sure better than what we have been doing the last four years, though.

Annexing Mexico?
You mean invading, and declaring war on a sovereign foreign nation? Like Russia did to Ukraine? How many innocent people would have to die?

I see the point being made about controlling Mexico to solve the cartel and other non related problems. It’s not practical though. We could do it. Forget about the blowback for now. The logistics of synchronizing two dissimilar cultures and economies would create a friction only decades could cool. The time to seize Mexico was after our war with Mexico in 1848. Back then our societies weren’t so dissimilar. We were spinning about the same velocity in nearly the same direction. Today our velocities are way off and our direction is antipodal. A combination now would need a clutch or emulsifier. We don’t have the time for that.

No. We’ll need to solve our cartel problems as best we can within our limitations. Trump is talking about death penalties for dealers and possibly smugglers. He’s sealing the border. He’ll likely hit the cartels with stealthy military strikes and if I were in charge, I’d used the DOGE geniuses to find and seize their money.

A) I'm a fan of life at hard labor for most any crime against an individual.

B) I know this sounds a bit cold, but if we lose the addicts, we lose the addicts.

Suicidal people will find a way to kill themselves, no matter what.

They will be the lowest cost casualties we would take.

Its more likely to hit something akin to Palestine vs Israel, but with a LOT more money fueling the dark side.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

But I think the "How many innocent people would have to die?" question is being taken out of context.

I don't think the question is being taken out of context. I believe that the average Joe Citizen has zero clue on the amount of people and cash involved.

I believe that normal people just don't have the actual context.



Like I said, if the Cartels load up everything (Cocaine, Heroin & Meth) with Fentanyl and start shipping it here. Enough Fentanyl to make shit interesting... There are going to be thousands of deaths in the first month of that shit hitting the American streets.

Look at the "Casual Cocaine" users alone: A few bumps on the weekends, maybe Monday am to clear up the hangover from a weekend of partying. How many of those are going to drop dead? (We'll talk about the actual "Who" later on in another episode )

Add on your regular Crack/Cocaine, Heroin & Meth addicts.

Lil Jimmy or Precious Suzie smoking a little bit of the Refer? Some of the Jazz Cabbage? Electric Lettuce?
How about Marijuana laced with Fentanyl?!?!?
How much weed is still getting shipped in from Mexico?

Not enough Narcan / Naloxone, ER Rooms, or people that care to go around.
All without firing one single shot.

Now, I wouldn't go out and call all those people "innocent", but you know there's a ton of people that would.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

But I think the "How many innocent people would have to die?" question is being taken out of context.

I don't think the question is being taken out of context.

Once again, the context was "annexing" or making Mexico a part of the USA. That doesn't seem to be what you are talking about. I don't think that is smart or workable.

I agree with darthfuster:

quote:

The time to seize Mexico was after our war with Mexico in 1848. Back then our societies weren’t so dissimilar.

Our cultures were always wildly dissimilar.

The Texas Revolution started as a movement to restore the Mexican Constitution of 1824, when Santa Anna declared himself dictator.

Chihuahua, Tejas and Jalisco all tried to restore it.

Mexico wildly supported Santa Anna, and even when he was captured, the movement to try to oust him fizzled.

Mexico was where a bunch of aristos were sent to have people to own and abuse, just like their older brothers. Very similar to parts of the South.

It has the same sickness, just never made any real progress on it.

Yes, there are decent people in it, lots of them - but it was never anything like the US, in culture.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
1) You really think Mexico would say "Hell yeah, we'll be states 51-82!"?

Maybe, maybe not. I don't particularly care, to be honest.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
2) Assuming/Predicting they don't say that, how would we force that to happen? What was the old SAC motto, "When Diplomacy Fails"?

Could be done if we actually took the gloves off and used our forces and tech to the level of capability we have.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
3) Assuming we have to resort to military action, how exactly do you think that would play out? I'm thinking Viet Nam with tacos.

Under Trump? Probably look more like Desert Storm than Vietnam. Under another establishment stooge? Yeah, Vietnam or GWOT. But it also would never happen with an establishment stooge.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
And for the record, I don't think we should have been fucking around with the Russians in Ukraine either. That shitshow was of "our" own making, but if you think we've sunk too much treasure there, I'd wager it'd look like chump change compared to invading/occupying/pacifying Mexico.

Oh, it's not about the amounts, it's about where it's a waste vs where it would benefit us. I could give a slim shit about Ukraine. I do care about what's happening in our own back yard that directly and daily affects us.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
How about we build a secure border/wall, revamp our immigration procedures, let Border Patrol, ICE, etc do their jobs, and maybe let the SOCOM kids loose on the cartels.

Without a doubt, we need to start with that. As I said several times already, I know what I think should happen is never going to, for many reasons. I would have to be satisfied with an actual attempt to secure our borders and put the biggest of the cartels to the sword, as it were.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
Let's not just point the finger of culpability at Mexico and the Cartels.
If we (not you and I here on Sig Forum, but as Americans) weren't jamming that shit up our noses, into our veins or smoking it, we wouldn't be in this much trouble now, would we? America is the #1 (Numero Uno) purchaser of Illegal Narcotics. Once we deal with our little drug habit, dealing with Mexico will be so much (morally) easier.

So, to speak to this, I have over twenty years dealing with addiction, five years experience dealing with addiction treatment, including a brief stint working at a treatment facility. The way we, as a country, deal with addiction treatment is an absolute farce. I mentioned it in a prior post, but if we threw some actual money at it and cut the red tape, we could probably make some real gains. The reality is, there are powerful people who like having 10+ percent of the population captive and dependent. There is a whole lot of money to be made there. On the other end of the spectrum are people like Aglifter who would think we'd be better for it if every addict or alcoholic died tomorrow. That's getting into eugenics conversations and a slippery slope about who gets to live and who gets to die based on things they cannot control, whereas I think answering that question based on "are you a Narco terrorist, or do you act in a capacity to support same" is an absolutely valid and fair way to do it.

It would be more practical to seize Cuba and turn it into Monaco.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I mentioned it in a prior post, but if we threw some actual money at it and cut the red tape, we could probably make some real gains.

Problem is we’ve already thrown hundreds of millions of dollars at it. Every taxpayer and insurance holder pays a toll on this.

When do they catch a break?

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
It would be more practical to seize Cuba and turn it into Monaco.

I kind of like that idea (yes, I'm kidding). A nice winter getaway and many of the people there have very pro-American relatives here.
They also play a big part in the east coast drug smuggling by being a stopover and refueling station.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Every taxpayer and insurance holder pays a toll on this.

Oh, for sure. On the front end, and the back end, and doing what you do, you know what I'm talking about.

We can pay for shrimp on a treadmill and tranny plays in Boliva like those are problems that need solving, or we can acknowledge that addiction is a mental illness that plagues our society and isn't fully understood and isn't being effectively dealt with. There's people in this thread saying the problem with Mexico can never be solved as long as the demand here exists, and that's true. However, so far there's one guy admitting to having extensive experience with addiction and the subsequent treatment of and being him, I am telling you that what the taxpayers have paid for so far is a broken, shitty system that does not work. Surely you don't disagree.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
When do they catch a break?

From where I'm sitting, addiction is going to be a problem that society will have to deal with essentially forever, unless we isolate the genetics that trigger it and eradicate it through genocide and genetic engineering, or the less "Mengele" option: We imprison repeat offenders unless and until they complete a mandatory long-term treatment plan and display actual stability. There's problems with the second option that center mostly in a bunch of people with massive egos wanting to bilk money off sick people and too much money to be made from it.

I have no real answer, but I can say that what we have done so far hasn't worked. I know what worked for me, but doctors, lawyers, and healthcare workers all want to have their say, and the input from the laymen I've talked to about it hasn't lined up with the reality I've witnessed. With no consensus, there will not be progress.

One of my old sponsors went on an tirade to behold one day. I forget all the fine points that had me gasping for air I was laughing so hard, but the punchline was that we should round up all the junkies in King County, drop them into the Tacoma Dome and rename it the "Thunder Dome." There was something about telling them the winner gets a lifetime supply of their favorite drug and litter the arena floor with bricks and sticks and let them tear each other to pieces. The winner gets a bullet between the eyes. Sell tickets and Pay-Per-View, it would put the whole county back in the black and we could actually afford new roads. "Fuck 'em all." This guy, a bearded biker with a shaved head and neck tattoos used to do heroin, and he had zero patience for a whole segment of society that not only didn't want to get with the program but were an active and massive burden on society. I'm reasonably sure a sensible middle ground between that, and letting them take over whole chunks of blue cities can be found.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I am telling you that what the taxpayers have paid for so far is a broken, shitty system that does not work. Surely you don't disagree.

I don’t disagree.

The closest thing I can equate it to is education. We’ve dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into our failed education system. And the answer to fix? More taxpayer money.

Eventually there has to be an “or else” for wasting taxpayer money on emotion.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Eventually there has to be an “or else” for wasting taxpayer money on emotion.

From your lips to God's ear. I want results, not waste and grift.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
It would be more practical to seize Cuba and turn it into Monaco.

Trump will rename the invasion "Bay of Pulled Pork".

Mmm, mmm, mmmmmm...

If PR had a remotely functional culture, they would already dwarf Monaco and Singapore - but, it’s full of Puerto Ricans, so it’s PR