Each man must come to terms with his death in his own way, but when we begin to talk about what is beyond our inevitable demise (which I think is the important question), then, I have much to say, because I've meditated on this for most of my adult life.

If you try to find the real answer, you will come up short, because this is an impenetrable mystery. The Gertrude Stein quote I posted last night acknowledges this. Christians will tell you this is wrong, and that there is an answer to the mystery. I hope they are right.

Setting aside organized religions, I've attempted to divine the answer with the help of philosophers and poets, as silly as that may sound to some of you. I think, however, that the only real mistake when it comes to contemplating the nature of our existence is to think that there is nothing for us beyond our current lives.

I take comfort in knowing that these questions are eternal in man. Thousands of years ago, humans were asking themselves the same questions.

Whenever the subject comes up these days, I tend to think about that poem by Yeats- Sailing to Byzantium. The common connection to this poem, for people in modern American culture is the Coen Brothers film No Country for Old Men, because the title of the film is taken from the first line of Yeats' poem. The poem tells of an old man contemplating eternity. The third stanza of this poem- and, more specifically- the last half of this stanza is significant for me.

Scholars have written essays on the meaning of the first four lines of this stanza. Its language is not clear. Suffice to say that it is a plea, a prayer. The last four lines, though, require little interpretation:

O sages standing in God's holy fire
As in the gold mosaic of a wall,
Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre,
And be the singing-masters of my soul.
Consume my heart away; sick with desire
And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is; and gather me
Into the artifice of eternity.



"And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is"

Yeats is saying that we cannot recognize the infinite within us because it is contained within a mortal vessel. Once the vessel is gone, we remain I'll note also that it's a distraction to say "we" or "I" because these terms represents our mortal identity.

Here is an analogy I use to try to explain to people what I have come to believe happens to us when we die.

Imagine an ocean of infinite size; ocean below, sky above. The ocean represents all existence; everything- all matter and energy of the universe. The sky represents organic consciousness- every living, sentient being. Not just humans, mind you, but every living thing which can be deemed to be conscious.

When we are born, it's as if our creator (and you don't have to think of this creator as being God, because "God" makes moot for atheists and agnostics this analogy I'm giving) dipped a drinking glass into the ocean and lifted it into the field of consciousness.

So, there you are- there you are; yourself, the person you are. You are a vessel which contains the infinite. All the water pulled from the ocean and which is now contained in the glass, is exactly like the water in the ocean. The only difference is that the water in the glass has taken on the shape of its containing vessel.

It is perfectly natural that we humans think ourselves as being the vessel and not the water contained within, but this is not so.

OK, so, the inevitable arrives- your death. What happens when the vessel is destroyed? What happens when the creator takes a hammer and hits the glass? The water contained within the vessel falls out of consciousness and back into the infinite ocean, to mingle with all matter, all energy.

Yeats knew it:

"And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is"

Our animal nature prevents us from recognizing the infinite within ourselves and it is very difficult to realize this and once realized, it is difficult to reconcile it because in our present form, we are naturally preoccupied with keeping our body alive. All we know is this existence and this vessel which contains the infinity of all. I'll point out to those who deride religion as the sanctuary of fools, that religious beliefs are the primary method for man to recognize the infinite within us.

For those of you who've managed to read through all of this, I'll leave you with another verse from another of the great poets, William Blake, from The Marriage of Heaven and Hell:

"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.

For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things through narrow chinks of his cavern."

Always thought John Prine had it right....



Please Don't Bury Me

Woke up this morning
Put on my slippers
Walked in the kitchen and died
And oh what a feeling!
When my soul went through the ceiling
And on up into heaven I did ride
When I got there they did say
John, it happened this way
You slipped upon the floor
And hit your head
And all the angels say
Just before you passed away
These were the very last words
That you said

Please don't bury me
Down in the cold cold ground
No, I'd druther have 'em cut me up
And pass me all around
Throw my brain in a hurricane
And the blind can have my eyes
And the deaf can take both of my ears
If they don't mind the size

Give my stomach to Milwaukee
If they run out of beer
Put my socks in a cedar box
Just get 'em out of here
Venus de Milo can have my arms
Look out! I've got your nose
Sell my heart to the Junkman
And give my love to Rose

But please don't bury me
Down in that cold, cold ground
No, I'd druther have 'em cut me up
And pass me all around
Throw my brain in a hurricane
And the blind can have my eyes
And the deaf can take both of my ears
If they don't mind the size

Give my feet to the footloose
Careless, fancy free
Give my knees to the needy
Don't pull that stuff on me
Hand me down my walking cane
It's a sin to tell a lie
Send my mouth way down south
And kiss my ass goodbye

But please don't bury me
Down in that cold cold ground
No, I'd druther have 'em cut me up
And pass me all around
Throw my brain in a hurricane
And the blind can have my eyes
And the deaf can take both of my ears
If they don't mind the size

I am not a christian. However, after 45+ years in EMS, Fire and Law Enforcement and watching many people die in front of me that I was unable to help or save I know this:

There is a discernible difference between someone who is alive, and someone who has expired. I know not what it is, but it is apparent, and not just the absence of movement or respiration. 'Something' is no longer present in that body, whether it is what people call a 'soul' or simply a lack of electrical energy I don't know, but it is definitely absent. You can observe the change, almost to the second. When my mother died, I knew exactly when she passed, and immediately (to me) the body was no longer my mother but a body that she had used and discarded.


So I guess we'll all have to wait to find out when we cash in our chips.


.

He may have meant
Schwans song ?

https://www.schwans.com/?cid=p...z0MtFfkaAoCdEALw_wcB

This coming Saturday I will be the same age (to the day) that my dad was on the day he died. So I’m in touch with my mortality if that was the OP question.

I'm not sure I understand the question, but I am getting real close to the 3/4 century mark, so the "end" crosses my mind occasionally.

I've had a very interesting & full life. I'm not at the end of the road yet, but when I get there, I can turn around and say, "That was one hell of a fucking ride."

quote:

Originally posted by Pyker:
I am not a christian. However, after 45+ years in EMS, Fire and Law Enforcement and watching many people die in front of me that I was unable to help or save I know this:

There is a discernible difference between someone who is alive, and someone who has expired. I know not what it is, but it is apparent, and not just the absence of movement or respiration. 'Something' is no longer present in that body, whether it is what people call a 'soul' or simply a lack of electrical energy I don't know, but it is definitely absent. You can observe the change, almost to the second. When my mother died, I knew exactly when she passed, and immediately (to me) the body was no longer my mother but a body that she had used and discarded.


So I guess we'll all have to wait to find out when we cash in our chips.


.

Thanks for the perspective.

World ending song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaJuR8QaBrQ

Haven't heard the swan singing yet, but I have been clinically dead before.

To say it has changed my perspective in life is an understatement.

38supersig Care to elaborate?

Pascal's wager: Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God.

If God does not exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas if God does exist, he stands to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (an eternity in Hell)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
And life is finite in this world, right?

In this world, yes, but this world is not all there is.

Is everything OK? Is this philosophical, or is something going on with you?

Philosophical. Nothing wrong. Just A cough at 61 yrs old from a cold.

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
Can we get Bendable to come translate?

LOL I was literally double checking to see if he was the OP.

quote:

Philosophical

"Thinking about thinking" -Philomena Cunk


.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
He may have meant
Schwans song ?

https://www.schwans.com/?cid=p...z0MtFfkaAoCdEALw_wcB

Dang, that Raspberry Rumble ice cream is amazing.

Let's take it easy on bendable, guys. Who do you remember as time goes by? You remember the bastards and you remember the colorful characters. Bendable is the latter.

Off the subject & I apologize. I’ve had a few seizures and a few strokes and am way behind.

Yes, I remember bendable, but I can’t recall anything on Sigmonkey, is he ok? Thanks fellas.

Death happens. It is one to a customer - never zero and never two.

"We're All Gonna Die!!" Yep. It's part and parcel of being a human. That said, check my CUT.

Never hid it from the kids, either. When my son was around six he asked me, "When you die, can I have your bike?" and of course I said, "Sure."

When I go to the doc and we deal with something, I say, "So....you're saying I'm going to die of something else?"

Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius are worth reading, if folks are having issues. Their perspectives, ancient though they are, are pretty level-headed.

Led Zeppelin rules!

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