quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by Snapping Twig:
Strap them up with tourniquets, put them on a very slow belt and feed them feet first into a chipper shredder.

Seems like a pretty good example of deep evil rising to the surface.

More of a warning to others that might walk down that path.

You see, I don't care why bad people don't do bad things, I only care that they don't do them.
If frightening them works - so be it.

This type of warning has worked throughout human history, why stop now?

quote:

Originally posted by Snapping Twig:This type of warning has worked throughout human history, why stop now?

I don't have a problem with executing these two, but resorting to gruesome medieval style torture is more about satisfying others' evil desires than deterrence.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
Crom, the silly term "pure evil" means that a human so described would be incapable of any kindness whatsoever. It's ridiculous and it's a copout.

Good dwells within you and so does evil, and if you can't see it, you aren't looking hard enough.

I agree. I TRY to keep the evil in check.

But, on a deeper philosophical level, I don't think there is any such thing as "evil" at all.

I think it is analogous to "heat" and "cold". A physicist would tell us that there is no such thing as "cold", only "absence of heat".

I think "evil" is "ignorance" = lack of spiritual knowledge, wisdom, insight, empathy with others.

So "pure evil" would be analogous to "approaching absolute zero".

But as a practical matter, we speak of "cold" all the time. And if you get too cold it can kill you. That makes cold "real".
Similarly, I am not bothered by speaking of "evil" in conversation. Evil can kill you, and if the spiritual cold becomes too close to "absolute zero" it seems like "pure evil".

Hey, I'm using the terms you guys are using. I'm not the one who started this "evil" stuff. As you can see, I don't hold with that nonsense.

Humans are capable of anything, and you don't have to have a special "evil" gene to do horrible things in this life.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
Evil can kill you, and if the spiritual cold becomes too close to "absolute zero" it seems like "pure evil".

Now you're babbling. Just give it up. I've made my point in several different ways in this thread. What these "kids" did has nothing to do with "evil". Let's get off of it, please.

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Originally posted by MNSIG:
I don't have a problem with executing these two, but resorting to gruesome medieval style torture is more about satisfying others' evil desires than deterrence.

There is some fraction of evil/deluded people who have an associated suicide wish. If you make the execution too painless, it is just an "easy out" for them and may attract the behavior you are trying to discourage.

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
. . .I think it is analogous to "heat" and "cold". A physicist would tell us that there is no such thing as "cold", only "absence of heat".

I think "evil" is "ignorance" = lack of spiritual knowledge, wisdom, insight, empathy with others.

So "pure evil" would be analogous to "approaching absolute zero". . .

I never thought of it that way, Crom, but am thinking that way now. That's genius!

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Originally posted by Crom: If you make the execution too painless, it is just an "easy out" for them and may attract the behavior you are trying to discourage.

That is one heck of a stretch to justify slowly feeding someone through a wood chipper vs shooting or hanging them.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
There's no such thing as "pure evil" any more than there is "pure good". All of that stuff is in all humans.

In the film Chinatown, John Huston as Noah Cross alluded to this:

"...most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything."

Kurt Vonnegut once said to never trust a survivor until you know exactly what they did to survive.

It's a similar thing. Everyone is theoretically capable of anything. We all develop ways to limit ourselves, good or bad. We either give in or rise up but it's all centered around choices. Pure sociopaths don't exist. Neither does pure evil.

These two shitheads made choices and I'm sure they empowered each other. They took lives by choice and threw a party afterwards. Kill 'em. Don't really care how it's done. There is no possibility of real Justice in this world and the situation they created can't be rectified. The only thing left is not to add to the injustice by forcing society to pay for their upkeep.

I have never been concerned about the death penalty being a deterrence, nor am I interested in torture. Just kill 'em and move on.

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Originally posted by SapperSteel:
I never thought of it that way, Crom, but am thinking that way now.

It solves the problem of "Why did God create evil?"
No, He didn't. But He did create free will. A free person can wallow in their own ignorance or even willfully refuse to recognize truth.

It also solve the problem of "damnation". God really doesn't "damn" anyone. They live in a self-impose hell of their own ignorance and "evil".

I am still baffled by the problem of "Why is there suffering?" Especially since even "good" people suffer. The eastern concept of Karma seems like a convenient explanation, but I can't convince myself it is the necessary explanation. But it is VERY convenient, especially if you allow that "previous lives" may include all previous existence on all possible spiritual realms, not just "Earthly lives". Nobody really knows exactly what happened before we were born or after we die, so "very convenient" may be "good enough".

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That is one heck of a stretch to justify slowly feeding someone through a wood chipper vs shooting or hanging them.

But if they really deserved it, why not exploit the entertainment value too!

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Originally posted by Crom:
But if they really deserved it, why not exploit the entertainment value too!

I'm sure that ISIS thought they were justified in burning the pilot alive in the cage as a deterrent to other pilots that might be inclined to bomb them. There's a huge difference between a dignified judicial execution that is being done on behalf of the people(all of us) and some sick sadistic crap that I want no part of.

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Originally posted by parabellum:
They're bandaged up because they made suicidal gestures (and that is all they were- just gestures) after the fact. It's apparent from the murders they committed that if they had really wanted to die, they could have done so.

Just more bullshit from this trash

Wish the guard had said "Shucks boy, this is the right way to do that. Here, I'll help."

Fair trial, conviction, sentence, lead outside and execute. Let's not waste time.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

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Originally posted by Snapping Twig:This type of warning has worked throughout human history, why stop now?

I don't have a problem with executing these two, but resorting to gruesome medieval style torture is more about satisfying others' evil desires than deterrence.

Just wow!

OK, have it your way.

I can show you the moon, but I can't make you see it.

We will to agree to disagree.

I don't know what made them do it. And I don't usually pile on about hanging people but, man....

I was sold when it said they lived with the dead grandparents for several days.

Walking around in the morning carrying their bowl of cereal.

"Goo' morning, gra' ma. Mind if I change the channel on the tee vee?"

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Originally posted by Snapping Twig:
No interest in the hows or whys of their behavior. They did what they did - they get what they get.

I thoroughly enjoy philosophical debate. But, in the final analysis, when it comes to individuals like these two teens, I am of the same mindset as Snapping Twig. Are they pure evil? Are they insane? I don't know and I don't care. But, what I do care about is justice, and in this case justice demands execution.

There was a murder here in Lynchburg in the 80's where the kids in love killed her parents. The boy mostly was blamed (from England IIRC) but most think she was just as guilty.
Point is I don't think they would have done this separately. But together... damn.
Some boys in Texas doused a kid in lighter fluid and lit it. News and people kept using words like pure evil, but individually this would have been a fist fight. But together. ..
Personally I believe in sin. My dad taught me when I was young that friends can help keep me out of trouble or drag me into it. So choose my friends wisely.