And each, without the other, would have committed these murders? uh uh

They did this because they were together

And to think people still oppose the death penalty

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
And to think people still oppose the death penalty

This would seem to be one of those cases where there is little doubt as to guilt.

Well, they've confessed, so...

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Think back to when you were young. When you met someone and "fell in love", didn't you feel powerful and confident beyond reason? That's the reconstruction of the androgyne. This myth recounted in Symposium- Plato didn't just pull this out of his ass. There's great truth in that fable he tells and humans knew it even 25 centuries ago.

Yes... they felt powerful and confident beyond reason. Been there, but... never to the abandonment of all social construct or civil society.
These two: short rope, long drop, good solution.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Well, they've confessed, so...

You'd think that should be the end of it. Unfortunately, we have a local turd that kidnapped and murdered a 6 year old last year, led the sheriff to the body and confessed. He now is claiming coercion, no attorney, etc. We can only hope that the evidence in both of these cases is so overwhelming that they are easy convictions, even if the confessions are recanted.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
OK, are we really going to start this irrational "pure evil" stuff?

All things humans are capable of, dwell in all of us. Don't make excuses for these people, and that's exactly what you're doing when you start this "pure evil" nonsense.

I don't quite understand your rejection of the concept of evil.
Or is it just rejection of "pure evil"...or that it was the motivation in this specific case ?

Maybe this is straying too far off-topic and needs a different thread ?
Just trying to understand.

It's just as I said earlier in this thread- All things humans are capable of, dwell in all of us.

You start calling people "pure evil" (what does that even mean?) and you're letting them off the hook for their actions.

"Why did that do it?"

"They can't help it. They're pure evil."

Come on. It's a meaningless copout. What you're doing is saying that they themselves are not responsible for their actions, because they were simply being true to their nature, and that's horse shit. Calling people "pure evil" means they can do no other. Ridiculous.

If these two "kids" had never met, grandma and grandpa would be alive right now.

But, although all capabilities may dwell within us, must people successfully suppress or resist the "evil" tendencies, while some appear to be completely swept away into the darkest of evil.
They are responsible for this "embrace" of evil. I don't see it as a "copout", just a recognition of the phenomenon.

Once a person has "embraced" the pure evil, pure evil actions naturally ensue. But they are still responsible.

As far as the parable goes: Maybe I am incredibly dense, but I never had love induce such a feeling of power that I wanted to bludgeon my grandparents to death with a tire iron. I don't get the connection there at all.

But I recognize this is all just philosophical rambling. As a practical matter: short rope...

So, after all I've said, your take away is that I'm saying that this is normal behavior for young people their age? And because you didn't murder your grandparents, my points are not valid.

I'm wasting my time, I see.

Without any doubt whatsoever, the behavior of these two "kids" is exceptional, in the textbook definition of the word.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
So, after all I've said, your take away is that I'm saying that this is normal behavior for young people their age? And because you didn't murder your grandparents, my points are not valid.

I didn't say your points are not valid; only that I didn't understand.
Just trying to understand.

quote:

I'm wasting my time, I see.

Maybe. Sorry.

There's no such thing as "pure evil" any more than there is "pure good". All of that stuff is in all humans.

In the film Chinatown, John Huston as Noah Cross alluded to this:

"...most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything."

quote:

It's a meaningless copout. What you're doing is saying that they themselves are not responsible for their actions, because they were simply being true to their nature, and that's horse shit. Calling people "pure evil" means they can do no other. Ridiculous.

Right.
Evil is a choice.
All things humans are capable of, dwell in all of us. Good and evil aren't a permanent state, we can all choose good or evil at different points in our lives.

ETA: ^^ Yep, you said it better than me.

I'm surprised how people that are capable of things like this can function in society without drawing undue attention.
Reinforces the idea that something about the combined personality issues and maybe some unusual event sets it all off.
They are sort of like a pack of dogs, fine individually but put them all together and something instinctive (to them anyway) kicks in.
I would bet people that had contact with them in the past, probably thought something just wasn't right but it didn't rise to the level that would cause them to take any action.

Strap them up with tourniquets, put them on a very slow belt and feed them feet first into a chipper shredder.

Use residue for gardening so they might serve a useful purpose.

No interest in the hows or whys of their behavior. They did what they did - they get what they get.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
There's no such thing as "pure evil" any more than there is "pure good". All of that stuff is in all humans.

In the film Chinatown, John Huston as Noah Cross alluded to this:

"...most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything."

Some of the terrible atrocities committed in wartime are a good example of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Snapping Twig:
Strap them up with tourniquets, put them on a very slow belt and feed them feet first into a chipper shredder.

Seems like a pretty good example of deep evil rising to the surface.

At the risk of belaboring these concepts:
It seems like stating that "at the right time and the right place, they're (we're all) capable of anything." is more of an excuse (copout ?) than just calling it "pure evil".

If we are all capable of anything, then we all might get really grouchy someday and bludgeon our grandparents to death ?

I think there is definitely SOMETHING different about someone who makes that sort of decision: a decision to submit to some primitive level of ....(insert words). "
"Pure evil" seems as good as any.


Again...just discussing, not arguing.

Evil? Drugs? Insanity? Folie à deux?

I think these are just the words that those of us on the outside use to try to explain behavior so abhorrent that it defies rational explanation. At least any rational explanation that I can wrap my head around.

Regardless, these two need to be put down. We should not suffer such evil to live.

Crom, the silly term "pure evil" means that a human so described would be incapable of any kindness whatsoever. It's ridiculous and it's a copout.

Good dwells within you and so does evil, and if you can't see it, you aren't looking hard enough.