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Irksome Whirling Dervish |
I've been a Surefire junkie since their Laser Products days and I have lights with that marking on the tailcap. I have the 80 lumen LED head. Compared to current Malkoff LEDs, it's not very good on brightness or runtime. The color has blue leaning tint more than white and the spill isn't ideal. I'd look for any excuse to replace it if I were you but if you still want a SF replacement light, you'll have to overcome their exclusion for wear and tear through normal use. The 80 lumen head disappeared many years ago and for good reason but let me do this: I'll send you the head that I have and in exchange, you send me one of your 6P lights. If that's not interesting to you, please go buy an M61 head from Malkoff. There are three main variations and depending on what you want, you can have bright with a short runtime, good bright with longer runtime and low output with up to 10 hours of runtime. The M61LL is the lowest at 100, or maybe it's up to 110 lumens, and that will give hours of full output runtime - far surpassing your SF 80 lumen head. It's what I use for a general purpose household light. I have the higher output LEDs but it's the one I grab 99% of the time. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
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| come and take it |
I like the older stuff, but I'm not in the die hard cloner camp to say what the most desirable models are. "The left can't applaud me because their hands are in other people's pockets." - Javier Milei | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
I have never had a problem with Surefire. I explained a problem I had and they just went ahead and sent me the part I needed, I don't even remember what it was, I think it was a tail cap, but I do remember that my problem was quickly and easily resolved. | |||
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Objectively Reasonable |
You and me both. Somewhere I have a box full of disembowled 6Ps and 9ps from the job. Guys turned their incandescent flashlights for LED versions. I saved endcaps, bodies, bezels, just no lamps because they "might be good for something." Spoiler alert, they pretty much never broke so we never needed the "spare parts." | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
My experience with Surefire CS was great. Apparently they had a bad batch of scout light heads. They made it right and replaced the heads. ________________ People hate you. Train like it. | |||
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| Member |
Hi Para, the address was: *************. emails sent on 10/24/25, 10/27/25, and 10/30/25. Subject was "Account Suspended?" Contents from the last email was: "Hi Para, Forgive me, but I have no idea why my account has been suspended. I’ve reached out a couple time to find out why, but no one has responded yet. Thanks, John Gray Sent from my iPhone" I just sent a new email to the same address to see if you get it.This message has been edited. Last edited by: parabellum, | |||
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| Member |
This is the response I received after shipping the failed units in: "Our repair technician has evaluated the bulbs and determined that the reduced output is due to normal wear over time. Unfortunately, this type of issue is not something we’re able to repair. These bulbs have also been discontinued for quite a while, and we no longer have any remaining stock available for replacement. While we’re unable to service them, we’d be happy to offer you a 30% discount toward a new light. Alternatively, we can send your current units back to you as-is. Please let us know which option works best for you, and we’ll take care of the next steps." Do LED's degrade over time alone, regardless of use? Should they degrade over time with very limited use? The No Hassle Warranty was for the "life of the device" as stated explicitly in the warranty. It also states the remedies are replacement of similar item or refund. I feel like I'm on pretty firm ground with my claim. Reading online reviews it seems there was a point in the recent past where the quality of SureFire's customer service seems to have taken a turn. There were former customers that cited early and later experiences. | |||
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| Member |
Kind offers are always welcome, thank you. For now I'm inclined to hang on to what I have until I have taken my claim as far as I can. Sill pretty motivated. I'm certainly familiar with the Malkoff upgrades and their reputation here.I agree 80 lumens is pretty weak sauce these days, and I considered upgrades, but these lights weren't expected to do much to begin with, so I opted for the warranty avenue not expecting the brick wall. | |||
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| Imagination and focus become reality |
I still have my X200. I believe it is 60 lumens. I thought it was pretty cool 20+ years ago. And it still works with a blueish hue to the light! | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
I have no such emails from you. Try emailing me again. And yes, your account was hijacked by a shitbag wannabe thief _______________________________________________ “What sickens me about left-wing people, especially the intellectuals, is their utter ignorance of the way things actually happen.” ~ George Orwell "That's one thing about intellectuals. They've proved that you can be absolutely brilliant and have no idea what's going on." ~ Woody Allen | |||
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| Member |
Thanks for confirming that, Para. I figured. I've sent emails from two different accounts since it seems emails from the one account aren't reaching you. | |||
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| Irksome Whirling Dervish |
Brackish, What SF is telling you is that they can't repair phosphorous fading which degrades over time and even quicker if the light is used. To make a white light, SF used LEDs that were coated. It's a blue LED with a yellow phosphorous coating that produces the white light. Technology wasn't the same back then and the coatings weren't great which is why you had some LEDs that were blue oriented, green or my favorite, a bit too much yellow and the light on the wall looked like cat piss. I have early LEDs that all have those colors but also a few where I hit the tint lottery and the colors are perfect. LED coating was very much a dark art. You can argue all you want with SF but they can't replace your LEDs and the fading with time is normal for the products from the era, no matter who made them. It's not defective but designed and manufactured with the highest available technology at the time. Argue if you have nothing better to do but I don't think they'll give you a half dozen new lights. For me, I kept the LEDs because I just hang onto things but all my 6Ps, 9Ps, G2s and G3s have Malkoff upgrades. You'll save on batteries because of greater runtime over SF, and Malkoff has better regulated run profiles too. Best money you'll spend on an LED upgrade. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Hmm... I think Flashlightboy might know a thing or two about flashlights. | |||
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| Member |
Thank you, Flashlightboy. Of course, your knowledge on the subject is stunningly impressive and makes a lot of sense, especially in hindsight. I will likely let this go, however I think the "in hindsight" part is important, and the distinction is that you are making more of an engineering/technical argument, while I am making a legal/contractual one. As a typical consumer making a purchase 12 years ago I certainly was not armed with any of your current knowledge, and the "No Hassle Warranty" offered by SF both then and now was VERY definitive. I think you might agree that the very heart of the 6P, or every light SF makes for that matter, is the LED. If they provide a warranty on the 6P "for your (meaning my) lifetime", and they exclude "switches" as a stated wear and tear item which they do, and they're not covering the LED, then what's left to actually cover under the warranty? What else could actually fail? Does that not render the warranty functionally meaningless? I would also point out that in their warranty they provide a list of wear an tear items that I think any fair minded individual would concede: "things like batteries draining, headbands and headpads wearing out, ink cartridges running out, and switches wearing out—or damage resulting from abuse, alterations, unauthorized repairs, or use contrary to SureFire’s user manuals" I would point out the notable absense of the LED as a stated wear and tear exclusion. Why wouldn't SureFire include it, if they are now claiming it to be excluded under wear and tear? I believe it is because they know including it changes the perceived value to the consumer of their warranty. Further, I believe this is likely deliberate on their part, and therefore intentionally misleading. I like to consider myself reasonable and logical. Your argument is certainly that from a technical point of view and to some degree knowing what we know now. So, it makes an impact on my thinking. However, for the reasons stated above I still believe SF is acting and has acted in bad faith. Yesterday, I sent a final missive to SF. I made a lot of these same arguments, but it's unlikely I'll be successful. As several of you have pointed out, I should ultimately just view this as an opportunity to upgrade to Malkoff heads. I'm getting there. | |||
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| Member |
I’d argue that there’s a bunch of other things that could fail for one reason or another that would likely be covered. For example if the light was dropped and the body cracked or something like that, I feel pretty confident that the light would be covered. At the end of the day, I think that for most things it’s best to buy a product because of features, build quality, etc. and not just based upon a warranty. Perhaps this is where marketing and practicality clash. I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but in essence it seems like to you, the “no hassle/ forever” warranty meant that you would essentially be able to buy these flashlights once and then never have to buy any other flashlights again. That may not be an unreasonable expectation based upon marketing or maybe it is, but in practical terms I think it seems pretty clear that something like that wouldn’t really be feasible. Similarly I don’t think it would be fair to replace an obsolete light that didn’t fail completely with another light that’s multiple generations forward with respect to technology and performance at no cost to the original purchaser. Ultimately, I’m still a fan of Surefire and think they make great, albeit expensive, products. I think you’ve got the foundation for a great performing light based upon current standards with what you have by adding a Malkoff conversion. I’ve personally upgraded some of my older Surefire lights and am pleased with the outcome. I hope you’ll be similarly satisfied if you do decide to go the upgrade route. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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Member |
30% off a new equivalent would be $38. So, a new 6PX Tactical would be $88. A Malkoff LED replacement runs $51 to $71, depending on model. A new Surefire has a new warranty period. This is a classic cash flow question. Six new lights = $750. Six Malkoff is $310-$426. If you don't need six, I would buy two new ones at the discounted price. Then, as needs arise, purchase Malkoff conversions with the four that Surefire returns. ------- Trying to simplify my life... | |||
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| That rug really tied the room together.  |
Thats a very BS response. They should do better. ______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow | |||
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| Irksome Whirling Dervish |
The light is working as intended. It does not fall under a design, manufacturing or other negligence defect. It's not broken and it didn't fail during use. The warranty doesn't say that if performance degrades you will be entitled to a new light with the latest and greatest technology for however long you have the product. SF might do something for customer service reasons but it won't on a negligence basis. The products have improved with time and there's no contractual right. Normal wear, tear and degradation aren't covered. Substitute windshield wipers on your car for flashlight and tell the manufacturer the product is defective and didn't meet your expectations. It will be the same outcome. | |||
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