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And some places, like Costco gas stations, don't offer an option to pay cash.

That's the beauty of it! The more places go electronic, the more money they make and the fewer options you have.

I've said the same thing for years regarding retailers like Walmart and Amazon. It's "really convenient" eventually becomes "it's the only option", and once that's the case you'll have no choice.

Whether you're paying a stated fee or it's baked into the cost you're paying it. Why? There's a third party taking 3% away from you on every single purchase you make. Think about that.

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Originally posted by V-Tail:

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:
With the last car I bought I went in expecting to write a check for the remainder after trade-in. The dealership asked if I was going to pay by check or credit card. It had never occurred to me to use a credit card, so I inquired further.

They said they'll do the first $5000 on a credit card with no fee

Similar here. Toyota dealer allowed up to $5,000; Ford and Cadillac dealers allowed $7,000.

When you're buying a car, it's a negotiable transaction.
Perhaps rather than put that first $5000 on a credit card with no fee they would give a cash discount for writing a check? It's worth asking... and may save you more than whatever you gain by putting it on the card.

I have seen it posted (if I go into the dealership for parts - specifically Toyota)

With that, what really pisses me off is when they want the CC fee but will not accept cash [to avoid said fees].

Not to change the subject matter but restaurants are starting to play this game too.

A few weeks ago coming back from up north I stopped at a barbecue place on the way home. It’s been awhile, probably two years since I’ve gone into there but surprise everything has gone up, way up. But, so what? I order, hand her my debit card and am told that they are charging a 3.99% on credit and debit cards. Well, debit cards are supposed to be no surcharge when used as debit, this I know.

I tell her “Be right back”, I go out to the Jeep and dig out forty bucks as I had attached a couple twenties in the console a couple weeks before. Paid, got my order and left. Between the 25% hike in prices and the 3.99% plastic surcharge I doubt I’ll ever return.

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Between the 25% hike in prices and the 3.99% plastic surcharge I doubt I’ll ever return.

Yeah, inflation is hitting all of us pretty hard. The restaurants and other small businesses are getting squeezed, but it's hard on all of us who are consumers.

Our dealership charges a 3% fee for over $5K. I'm pretty sure that's the fee we are charged if not more and if it's less, well that'll make up for the majority of CC charges we are covering. Especially on equipment that is sold at a 6-8" margin, that is unsustainable to absorb that. Our business could make $50 million in profit (it doesn't) but if we aren't hitting a certain percentage at the end of the day then it's not worth doing. Those who say "they need a new house or boat" sound like the liberals we all despise here. Isn't the goal of owning or running a business to be successful? I know car dealerships are higher margins now, especially after they adopt the old "best price price, no negotiation necessary!" as if it's to our benefit.

If you have to get angry, get angry with the the CC companies but it's a business, they are in it for profit as well.

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Originally posted by BRL:
Those who say "they need a new house or boat" sound like the liberals we all despise here. Isn't the goal of owning or running a business to be successful?

.

Sorry BRL, I disagree. I’m far from a Liberal. And I wanted my employers to be successful too but also to remember that we have contributed to their success and profits.

Personal experience here, Forty seven years in automotive dealership fixed operations from counter to department management and back to counter by choice together with twenty three part time years in powersports concurrently until the last part time dealership was sold to a dealer group.

But fair is fair.

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Isn't the goal of owning or running a business to be successful?

No. Apparently, the goal of running a business is to make the banks and credit card companies rich by giving up 3% of your business to them while you do all of the work. You should just "absorb" that.

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Originally posted by shovelhead:
Not to change the subject matter but restaurants are starting to play this game too.

A few weeks ago coming back from up north I stopped at a barbecue place on the way home. It’s been awhile, probably two years since I’ve gone into there but surprise everything has gone up, way up. But, so what? I order, hand her my debit card and am told that they are charging a 3.99% on credit and debit cards. Well, debit cards are supposed to be no surcharge when used as debit, this I know.

I tell her “Be right back”, I go out to the Jeep and dig out forty bucks as I had attached a couple twenties in the console a couple weeks before. Paid, got my order and left. Between the 25% hike in prices and the 3.99% plastic surcharge I doubt I’ll ever return.

You should have politely explained why you won't be back because of the debit card surcharge.

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Well, debit cards are supposed to be no surcharge when used as debit, this I know.

Maybe for large retailers but I pay about 3.5% for credit & debt cards. No difference. I was once told that banks get a kickback of about 1.5% from the processor of debit cards. A small bank that I use is now giving the same guarantees as credit cards for using their debt cards. I still do not trust them.

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Originally posted by Anush:

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Well, debit cards are supposed to be no surcharge when used as debit, this I know.

Maybe for large retailers but I pay about 3.5% for credit & debt cards. No difference. I was once told that banks get a kickback of about 1.5% from the processor of debit cards. A small bank that I use is now giving the same guarantees as credit cards for using their debt cards. I still do not trust them.

I am unfortunately going through talking with my credit card processor with this exact conversation. I was told specifically that debit cards cannot be charged a % service charge. It is against the law. This is a quick and dirty search link for quick reference. They are processed at a per transaction cost since it was basically in principal paying cash. So customer using a debit card cannot be charged for the use. The business does however pay the transaction fee, although it is small, to the processor. Usually a $0.25 charge per transaction.

So those guys were ripping you off and breaking the law (specifically The Durbin Amendment, part of the Dodd-Frank Act). **I am not a lawyer, so not legal advice.**

I would be surprised if retailers have not already added the surcharge into their pricing. Most pay with credit card.
If it leads to less usage that would be great as credit cards enable impulse buying. Most customer likely don't have the cash to opt out.

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I was told specifically that debit cards cannot be charged a % service charge. It is against the law.

All state & local tax payments made with a debt or credit card have the same "processing fee". I wonder if government payments are exempt from the law or is a "processing fee " not a surcharge?

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Originally posted by Blackmore:

You should have politely explained why you won't be back because of the debit card surcharge.[/QUOTE]

If I was so inclined to do so a call, email or a letter to the owner would probably mean more. It’s not the server’s fault, no sense to adding to her grief over a policy that she didn’t implement. And in the big picture they will probably get along just fine without my once every other year dining.

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Originally posted by Anush:

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I was told specifically that debit cards cannot be charged a % service charge. It is against the law.

All state & local tax payments made with a debt or credit card have the same "processing fee". I wonder if government payments are exempt from the law or is a "processing fee " not a surcharge?

I I would bet hey are exempt. I can't remember if i have paid anything with my debit for tax or registration renewals. Property taxes are check, and I renew tags online, but can't remember with debit or credit. But those fees have always been charged for .gov payments.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

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I don’t charge my customers a line item for insurance, and I shouldn’t charge them for credit card fees either.

All of your customers benefit from your insurance. All of your customers benefit from your electricity. All of your customers benefit from your website.

Only your credit card users benefit from your ability to take a credit card. Why should cash customers subsidize your credit customers?

I see your point, and if you want to offer a discount to cash customers that certainly makes sense. But in my case nobody is subsidizing anybody else- I pay the credit card fees, just like I do all of my other expenses. I don’t charge anyone extra.

The NADA (National Auto Dealers Association) has meetings and symposiums all the time with increasing dealer profits. This “smells” of something hatched up in what is referred to as “Twenty Groups”, where they get twenty dealers together, similar sized dealers, similar revenue and bounce ideas off each other how to I prove their profits.

I’m pretty bitter at that concept, one size does not fit all. One dealer I worked for was a devotee of these, each time he’d go only to come back with some idiotic ideas. Like one dealer in his group decide that the way to increase fan belt sales (long time ago!) was to have his parts people wear a fan belt as a necktie.

I dealt with those idiotic ideas for almost three years. Until the last one he went to where according to the moderator about half of the dealers in the group were paying their management staff too much. My reward for working six days a week, delivering parts when off work, paperwork at night and according to all the GM metrics was doing this with a staff that needed to be increased by two (I only wanted one additional person) and sometimes going in on Sundays was a 33% pay cut. All to bring me in line with the study done by the moderator.

I lasted 45 days and left.

We pay the same processing fee for debit cards, tap, or credit cards.

Not sure why debit cards would be exempted from being charged the processing.

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I see your point, and if you want to offer a discount to cash customers that certainly makes sense.

What's the difference between subtracting price for cash customers or adding price for credit card customers?

Isn't the end result the exact same?

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But in my case nobody is subsidizing anybody else- I pay the credit card fees, just like I do all of my other expenses. I don’t charge anyone extra.

Sure they are.

If you have adjusted your pricing to account for all overhead, then those paying the adjusted price without generating the expense are subsidizing those who are paying the adjusted price while generating the expense.

If you didn't have that overhead, your prices could be lower for everybody.

Three of our favorite restaurants offer two prices on the receipt,
One price for cash payment and another for c.c. / debt payment.

I pay cash and save .34 cents.
Bonnie pays the extra for c.c payment
,
Two other restaurants just add on the c.c. additional charge to all the meals ,
I think that sucks,big time.


Two restaurants only! Take charge cards , we quit going to those places.