​An F-22 pilot took off with incorrect data and prematurely retracted the aircraft’s landing gear during a training flight in April at NAS Fallon, Nev., causing the aircraft to land on its belly and skid to a stop, the Air Force announced.

On April 13, an F-22 pilot from the 90th Fighter Squadron at JB Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska, took off from Fallon for a TOPGUN graduation exercise. The pilot rotated the aircraft — bringing the nose up — at 120 knots and as the aircraft indicated its wheels were leaving the ground, the pilot retracted the landing gear. Immediately after landing gear retracted, the aircraft “settled” back on the runway with the doors fully closed.

The F-22 slid about 6,514 feet until coming to a rest, with its tailhook bouncing off the ground. Once the F-22 came to a stop, the pilot egressed the cockpit and there was no damage to other property. The Air Force did not disclose a cost estimate to the damage.

The Accident Investigation Board found that the pilot had incorrect Takeoff and Landing Data for the conditions at Fallon — the pilot’s lineup card stated 136 knots indicated airspeed knots for rotation and 163 knots for full takeoff while that day’s conditions called for 143 knots for rotation and 164 knots for takeoff.

The investigation also found that the pilot prematurely retracted the landing gear and that day’s flight brief was inadequate.

Additionally, the F-22 community has “organizational overconfidence” in the equipment, formal training is not adequate, and there is an organizational acceptance of an incorrect technique of taking off in the F-22, the board found.

The incident was one of two involving Elmendorf Raptors within about a week. On April 6, an F-22 suffered engine failure and was forced to land at Tyndall AFB, Fla.

Don't they make simulators to teach these things?

quote:

Originally posted by Timdogg6:

I would think there would be some kind of red/green thingy that says you aren't going fast enough to fly yet.

I don't know what kind of thingy is in an F-22, but I have always found these thingies to be kind of handy in the airplanes that I have flown:

Wonder if he got the name of that Truck driving school off tv the night before.....

The article in the OP is very interesting. Basically says 80% of all F-22 pilots rotate early before reaching proper takeoff speed. It is a weird institutional problem that needs to be fixed.

quote:

The F-22 slid about 6,514 feet until coming to a rest, with its tailhook bouncing off the ground.

I bet this felt like an eternity...

That is a beautiful plane. It hurts seeing it plopped on the ground like that.

According to Topper Harley (Charlie Sheen) in ‘Hot Shots’, the damage to the aircraft can be repaid at $15/month. Maybe it’s been bumped to $25/mo. for the F22. Shouldn’t take long at all.

Michael

Low transition takeoff in the TA-4 Skyhawk

Not me, but this was the last type of plane I flew so I'm very familiar. Not as "fancy" as the afterburners, but how it's done when you don't have that 1+:1 thrust to weight advantage.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mojojojo,

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:

The Accident Investigation Board found that the pilot had incorrect Takeoff and Landing Data for the conditions at Fallon — the pilot’s lineup card stated 136 knots indicated airspeed knots for rotation and 163 knots for full takeoff while that day’s conditions called for 143 knots for rotation and 164 knots for takeoff.

7 knots early on rotation and one knot different on takeoff isn't a large amount. The rotation value in this case is more important than the 1 knot takeoff speed; anyone that can fly 1 knot is doing pretty damn good.

Early rotation in most swept wing aircraft doesn't offer any advantage, but can prolong takeoff distance and significantly delay the climb. I'd suspect from the description that the pilots are used to relying on thrust, rather than actually flying the airplane.

The article states that the pilot came off the ground at 120 knots and immediately retracted gear upon separation from the runway. That's 16 knots below rotation speed (when the nose is first raised or back pressure is first applied to the stick), and a full 44 knots below takeoff speed (a very significant amount, more in the what-the-hell range). No mystery at all why the airplane didn't fly.

He had a need.... a need for more speed!

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Why let a rookie fly a plane like that? Put him in a busted Tomcat.

Just a guess but maybe because the USAF doesn’t fly Tomcats???

Wonder if he was texting during takeoff.

Man, those British writers sure are repetitive.

On another note, belly up? Looks belly down.

The technique of 120 knot rotation that plagues the F22 community is designed to prevent gear over speeds. The aircraft is moving about 20 knots per second at rotation, and they falsely assumed 120 would allow for pilot reaction time while providing safe flying airspeed. You should hear the bitching from the F22 community trying to justify this guy’s mistake right now; I’ve been told more than once that I’m not a fighter pilot and I should accept they have good reasons for doing things a certain way and this is bascically the cost of doing business. There’s a lot of offended F22 pilots that are shocked to be criticized by us lessers.

“Copy I don’t fly fighters, but attaining flying airspeed before gear retraction is not a technique. It is a requirement that transcends platform.” That statement has spun some guys through the roof.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy: “Copy I don’t fly fighters, but attaining flying airspeed before gear retraction is not a technique. It is a requirement that transcends platform.” That statement has spun some guys through the roof.

The Truth, when first uttered, is always considered heresy. Spin 'em into orbit by telling them a Hornet guy says "Pulling the nose up and throttles back a bit if necessary prevents gear overspeed in the Navy." But I never flew the F-22, so what do I know?

A few years back in a tent in Iraq, a recently separated F22 guy wandered in. A couple of weeks out of his F22, and a week new to us. Told to show up with no identifying clothing, insignia, etc, he wore his flight suit, replete with patches. One was a skull punctured by a spear and swords. He was a tall guy, left me staring him straight in the chest. He looked down at us metaphorically and physically.

"That poor guy." I said. "He's got a knife stuck in his head."

"That's a spear!" He spit out, clearly offended. "I'm the tip of the speer." Maverick, eat your heart out.

"Really?" I asked. "Does it hurt?"

A couple of weeks later I visited his tent. I'd been tasked to move an airplane in the morning, and I was told he'd just had an engine failure in it. Seemed odd, move an airplane with a failed engine, but I was told go talk to XXX. So I did. I visited his tent, entered, and said I'd like to talk about his sortie. He was laying on his back, eyes to the ceiling, and couldn't be bothered to look at me or sit up.

"Speak!" He ordered.

"Yah, okay. Tell me about your flight."

"There I was, seven thousand, in the jet."

"You mean the piston-powered Cessna Skymaster, right?"

"Yes, the jet."

(Okay, I'd give him a break...he's only been separated a few weeks, still can't recognize a propeller two out of three times)

"And then? And then?"

"And then I had a rough engine. Manifold pressure rolled to zero. I lost three hundred feet, and that's how I knew I'd lost the engine."

"Manifold pressure rolled to zero?" (this isn't possible; it could only happen if he flew into a vacuum by say...teleporting into outer space)

"Yes."

"And how did you know you'd had an engine failure."

"I lost three hundred feet."

"Uh-huh. Then what?"

I scrubbed the mission and landed.

"Thanks for your time."

I knew right away what had happened. He didn't have an engine failure. His manifold pressure didn't "roll to zero," as it's not possible. He'd been running around with a rich mixture, fouled a spark plug, had a rough engine, and imagined the rest, and he biased in what he expected to see, envisioned a core lock in a turbine engine, and landed based on his incorrect conclusion and expectations. I checked on the airplane in the morning, exactly as expected, and ferried it to another base for some maintenance. It was fine.

The F22 guys are hotshots in their own cockpit, legends in their own minds, and not so pointy on the speer just about anywhere else. In my humble opinion. It comes from reading their own publicity.

quote:

Originally posted by Tailhook 84:
Spin 'em into orbit by telling them a Hornet guy says "Pulling the nose up and throttles back a bit if necessary prevents gear overspeed in the Navy." But I never flew the F-22, so what do I know?

Put ‘em into another solar system and tell them a Harrier guy agrees. You gots to know how to operate the go fast lever.

And the report says...he departed controlled flight.

quote:

Originally posted by arabiancowboy:
...attaining flying airspeed before gear retraction is not a technique. It is a requirement that transcends platform.”

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