quote:

Once the F-22 came to a stop, the pilot egressed the cockpit

And was last seen running into the desert hiding his face.....

quote:

Originally posted by tgtshuter:
I stand corrected and humbly apologize.

Might be my memory isn’t so good. I spent 4 years on F16s and 8 years on F15 flight line and don’t recall knowing about restraint systems being used.

I’ll go stand in the corner now...

You owe no such thing.

When we tied F-4 down on the trim pad, we used the hook restraint (big block and tackle with large link chain) and we also cabled the main gear.

You just don't want some Crew Chief driving a jet across the active and onto a packed flight line because the horse shoe fell off the end of the hook... (Yes, it happened once.)

Thanks sigmonkey.

I was an engine mechanic (run certified) on the F-15 and F-16, and did a bunch of engine runs on the trim pad, and later on, in hush houses.

Using the hook restraint for those runs was what I was referring to in my earlier post.
We had similar set-up for the F-15 and F-16, but didn't tie down the main gear.

The arresting hook on the F-16 looks so puny, I couldn't imagine it being strong enough to be used as with an arresting system. But I'm not an engineer.

When I was stationed at Torrejon AB Spain, one of our aircraft had to make a landing without it's nose gear extended, at Zaragoza AB.
No arresting system was used then, but maybe there wasn't one available because no USAF aircraft were assigned there at that time.

I do remember that Zaragoza AB was designated as an emergency landing strip for the space shuttle. But I imagine you'd need a hefty arresting system for that thing!

quote:

Originally posted by tgtshuter:
The arresting hook on the F-16 looks so puny, I couldn't imagine it being strong enough to be used as with an arresting system. But I'm not an engineer.

When they use them, it doesn't bring the aircraft to a sudden halt like you would see on a carrier. They catch the cable and then it stretches out and the plane will slowly come to a stop. The first time I saw a 15 catch one I thought something was wrong because it didn't stop right away, but that would rip out the entire system from the aircraft. It's a gradual stop.

I'm surprised you never saw a 15 use them, were you on E models? C models would catch them somewhat regularly because there was always some hydraulic issue with those POS jets.

quote:

The arresting hook on the F-16 looks so puny, I couldn't imagine it being strong enough to be used as with an arresting system. But I'm not an engineer.

Not all hooks are created equal.



You'll notice the runout on ground arrestments with the BAK-12 is much longer than a carrier landing, probably 3-4 times longer to stop the aircraft.

This accident sounds as though it was similar to the one in the OP. And probably had similar damage, but it’s been repaired.

“Six years after an accident that nearly saw the jet written off, a U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor is about to take to the skies again. The fifth-generation fighter was damaged during a training mission in 2012 that sent it skidding thousands of feet down an air base runway. Now, after extensive repairs, the stealth jet is about to re-enter service.

The Raptor was damaged on May 31, 2012, when a trainee pilot was conducting touch and go landings at Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida. According to the Air Force Accident Investigation Board's findings, the pilot failed to accelerate the jet to military power and engaged “premature retraction of the landing gear.” Without enough thrust, the F-22, known by its USAF serial number 02-4037, fell back down to Earth and skidded on its belly for 2,800 feet. The pilot escaped from the damaged aircraft after it stopped, suffering only minor injuries. The pilot was reportedly only on his third flight in an F-22 when the accident occurred…”

https://www.popularmechanics.c...ptor-will-fly-again/

quote:

Originally posted by tgtshuter:...

When I was stationed at Torrejon AB Spain, one of our aircraft had to make a landing without it's nose gear extended, at Zaragoza AB....

Landing nose gear reatracted, in most fighter type aircraft these days uses aero braking and keep the nose up to let the drag at high AOA slow them, by the time the aircraft is slowed to the point of settling, the impact to the forward fuselage is reduced all it can be, and there is very minor damage.

With the F-16, FOD is likly the biggest problem, as the engine would still be windmilling when the nose touches the runway even if shut down at touchdown.

The tail hook is not likely to engage the barrier after lowering the nose, and with the "accelerated" de-rotation from the barrier on the mains moment, the impact would be vary harsh to the nose and the bending force along the airframe would not be good.

Since the brakes are typically still good, even emergency brakes, the stopping ability is normally present in a nose gear up landing.

The tail hook boom is pretty hefty in spite of it's appearance, and the keel is very strong structurally, and engagements are not so harsh, just a very fast "ride down", but it is steady and somewhat controlled.

Engaging a barrier "wheels up" is very hard on the airframe, as the hook catches the aircraft a little above landing speed, and then rapidly looses that speed and hits the ground pretty hard, and still skids a good bit.

Having one main up or not down and locked or not in line (we had an F-15 in the 33rd TAC that had a main gear wheel/tire that presented 90 degrees from normal on extension, after a torque link failed, so the wheel/tire was sideways oriented left to right instead of front to back (inline). It touched down, and the wheel/tire/brake were ground down to the bottom of the axle (about 1/2 the wheel/tire/brake). Looked like it was cut in half, but minor damage and it was back on the schedule after, investigation, release from impound, and repaired.

Another consideration to landing with gear problems are the under-wing stores, and configurations.

Most of time was in the Test Wing, and testing various store configurations from almost every conceivable way things can be hung on aircraft and then flown at all manner of the envelope and release testing, a lot more "what if's" are discussed in mission planning and preflight briefing.

It was a "bigger deal" in the olde days, because computer simulations, the number of different aircraft models and number of weapons systems and tactics were much greater than today.

A lot of brain power was put into the overall thing, given the nature of the work, unforgivingness of laws of physics, and human element. Not to mention Murphy, who was involved in tests at Edwards, is ever present to remind; "If that guy has any way of making a mistake, he will." Everyone is "that guy".

Landing gear issues can call for an arrested landing, but it really depends what the issue is.

Same with flight control problems; in the FA-18E/F it was a long if-then flow chart depending on the issue, the controllability, and the recovery.

Most Navy fighter fields have both long and short field arresting gear options. The long field gear is always rigged in case someone has a braking problem on landing or has to do a high speed abort on takeoff - but the short field is often not rigged on the duty runway so jets can start the takeoff roll with full length, instead of having to taxi over it before takeoff (as you can see it bounces around a bit in the videos above and you can't do that if you have multiple planes taking off. Unlike civie aviation, most of the time military jets take off in 2-4s, instead of always singles). But if the short field is rigged, the planes just taxi over it slowly then start their takeoff roll.

Off-duty runway will often have both long and short field rigged so if a jet is flying, has an emergency requiring a short field arrestment and can't wait, it can land that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
“Six years after an accident that nearly saw the jet written off, a U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor is about to take to the skies again. The fifth-generation fighter was damaged during a training mission in 2012 that sent it skidding thousands of feet down an air base runway. Now, after extensive repairs, the stealth jet is about to re-enter service.

I'm sure if the F-22 production line was still open, they would have written it off and just bought a new one. But as that's no longer an option... fix'em up!

some Bondo, a bit of RAM and some paint - good as new

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
some Bondo, a bit of RAM and some paint - good as new

Yeah, it'll be the plane they label "Christine" and the FNG Pilot always gets it.

Call sign: "Cuntface"

quote:

Originally posted by AirmanJeff:

quote:

Originally posted by tgtshuter:
The arresting hook on the F-16 looks so puny, I couldn't imagine it being strong enough to be used as with an arresting system. But I'm not an engineer.

When they use them, it doesn't bring the aircraft to a sudden halt like you would see on a carrier. They catch the cable and then it stretches out and the plane will slowly come to a stop. The first time I saw a 15 catch one I thought something was wrong because it didn't stop right away, but that would rip out the entire system from the aircraft. It's a gradual stop.

I'm surprised you never saw a 15 use them, were you on E models? C models would catch them somewhat regularly because there was always some hydraulic issue with those POS jets.

I worked on A and B models. Tail numbers were mostly from '75, with a few '73s and "77s.
If it was somewhat regular with C models, odds are it happened, I just don't remember.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:


Not all hooks are created equal

What’s this “tailhook” you speak of?





JK. I’ve had a handful of traps, both on the carrier (CARQUAL) and ashore (wet runways, a few emergencies, etc) while flying the A-4. I agree with RHINOWSO, the arrested landing ashore is very mild compared to the carrier.

quote:

Originally posted by AirmanJeff:

quote:

Originally posted by cne32507:
And I didn't know that AF fighters have an emergency tailhook!

Not the A-10!

.

A-10's don't give a shit.