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Originally posted by ensigmatic:
But, the same thing that permits that also makes them very unforgiving of less-than-ideal strikes.

I can attest to that...LOL

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Yeah, they're called "blades" Smile

Pros use them because they can shape their shots with them. But, the same thing that permits that also makes them very unforgiving of less-than-ideal strikes. Whereas GI and SGI irons are more forgiving, but, greatly limit--if not all-but-eliminate, the ability to shape your shots.

Pro's use them because they can aka they hit in the center of the club (btw maybe the most important aspect of golf).

In the 70's I bought a set of Wilson Staff blades because I didn't know better.
They had a sweet spot the size of a dime.

Been playing since I was a kid, have had all kinds of sets including "blades" my favorite though are Ping Irons, specifically Ping Eye 2's that I still have and wouldn't give up for anything.

Find a store that has their offerings and get properly fit for any set you decide to buy, blades tend to lend themselves to low handicap players, if you're not a low handicapper then there are better options.

https://ping.com/en-us/clubs/irons

Ping has their normal designs and also offer blades.

You may be able to rent or borrow a set of blades from a golf store, maybe some trade ins to take to a range and see if you like hitting them or if they are not your cup of tea.

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Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Yeah, they're called "blades" Smile

Pros use them because they can shape their shots with them.

Pro's use them because they can aka they hit in the center of the club.

Well, yeah: That, too

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In the 70's I bought a set of Wilson Staff blades because I didn't know better.

I was using those as well when I was bouncing between a 5-7 handicap and playing 36 holes a day all summer. Even at that point, there were probably better choices for my game - I was running with some guys who were really good and got sucked in!

In today's market, for an occasional golfer in a 10+ range I would definitely consider something more forgiving.

I am currently slammed at work and can only address this in snippets. I've spent much of the last year looking to replace an old but trusty set of clubs. I've hit a boat load of clubs at a local PGA Superstore. Various brands, new & used, different shafts, various levels of targeted golfer, sometimes the full set of irons. Basic thoughts before I go into details later:
- The more clubs you hit, the better you understand your preferences. Personal preferences mean a lot to enjoyment down the road.
- It is very unlikely that one and only one club will work well for you. There are many manufacturers, and they understand equipment.

- Shafts are at least as important at the heads. Likely more important.

- Understand the effects of lofts on ball flight -- launch angle, spin, distance, height, descent angle.
- An iron that touts distance likely has been de-lofted. AKA "jacked" loft. My 7 iron has a 34 degree loft. Many 7 irons now have lofts in the 27-30 degree ballpark. My 5 iron has a 27 degree loft.

- We have sets of irons with various lofts to cover our various shot types & distances. IMO, jacked lofted iron sets often result in large differences between individual irons -- 5 or even 6 degrees between clubs. For folks with average swing speeds, figure 3 yards change for every degree change in iron loft. This can produce a large "gap" in carry distance between clubs.
- I've narrowed my choices to iron sets that have 4 degrees loft differences in the wedges & short irons, and 3 degrees in the long irons.

- The concept of forgiveness is loosely defined. Modern clubs don't punish the hitter's hand as much as old clubs do. A thin toe strike on old clubs might rattle your teeth. The same thing on a new club is "eh, bad hit".

- There are many iron brands in the players distance category. Do your homework on the web, but actually hitting different ones counts the most. Consider looking at the site "Todays Golfer", which does some reasonable comparisons across brands for given iron categories.

- Forgiveness for distances carried by mishits has been a nebulous concept for a long time. Look at the videos on the site "Cool Clubs". They are in beginning phases of testing impacts on irons across six points on the face, using a robot and advanced ball flight metrics. Some of the so called forgiving clubs do not perform as well as touted by their manufacturers.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

- The concept of forgiveness is loosely defined. Modern clubs don't punish the hitter's hand as much as old clubs do. A thin toe strike on old clubs might rattle your teeth. The same thing on a new club is "eh, bad hit".

I never had that problem, but when I played in cold weather as a kid (and sometimes snow), a mis-hit blade hurt like heck, and caused numbness in my hand, as as lefty my right hand.

I did better with the long irons, nuthin like smackin a Titleist right on the sweet spot with a 2-iron.

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Originally posted by konata88:
When I used to play, I could never afford name branded equipment. I used generic heads and shafts that were put together. They mimicked name branded equipment.

IME, the brands didn't make a difference. The heads are influential but secondary. The primary influence, for me, was in selecting the right shaft (material, stiffness, length).

I wasn't pro level or anything - I shot in the 80's. But practice and the right shaft was more important than the brand or the head I think. That was enough to consistently keep up with the groups and have fun.

I bought a set from these guys and they mimic the name brand clubs.

Pinemeadow

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Originally posted by smschulz:

In the 70's I bought a set of Wilson Staff blades because I didn't know better.
They had a sweet spot the size of a dime.

I had a set of Hogan Medallions that were beautiful clubs, and were muscle-back blades from the days before there were game-improvement clubs. I was never good enough to use them effectively, but when you hit one pure, it was heaven.

They matched my old persimmon woods, too.

I just got back from hitting multiple types from Ping, Callaway, Mitzuno, and I hit the D9 Forged the best. The Hot Metals averaged better distance, but the D9s had better spin and were consistent. With good contact they were pretty close in distance as well.

Blades are an option, but I'll be honest that I'm not ready for those. I might end up struggling and developing bad habits. The D9 Forged or Hot Metals might be a nice middle ground to grow and have fun. If I go that way I'd buy 4-PW and would need a new 50 degree GW. Would it pay to go with one from them or a CBX or Vokey SM9?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ackks,

While everyone is talking about irons, I'm gonna focus on putters. You should hit them all, say, at a PGA superstore. Try to find someone with a Scotty Cameron, you may fall in love and its a rabbit hole that will leave you penny-less. Remember, putt for dough...

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Originally posted by jhe888:

I had a set of Hogan Medallions that were beautiful clubs, and were muscle-back blades from the days before there were game-improvement clubs. I was never good enough to use them effectively, but when you hit one pure, it was heaven.

They matched my old persimmon woods, too.

I had the same Irons and persimmon woods as well, you were top dog on the tee with a Persimmon Driver!

Agree, you catch the sweet spot and the Hogan Medallions would send a straight shot right to the target. Miss it, well, you might find it over in the tree line...

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Originally posted by TexasScrub:
While everyone is talking about irons, I'm gonna focus on putters. You should hit them all, say, at a PGA superstore. Try to find someone with a Scotty Cameron, you may fall in love and its a rabbit hole that will leave you penny-less. Remember, putt for dough...

I preferred the ol' Billy Baroo......

quote:

Originally posted by TexasScrub:
While everyone is talking about irons, I'm gonna focus on putters. You should hit them all, say, at a PGA superstore. Try to find someone with a Scotty Cameron, you may fall in love and its a rabbit hole that will leave you penny-less. Remember, putt for dough...

I preferred the ol' Billy Baroo...... [/QUOTE]

I would agree that a good club fitting is a good idea. Beware however that they will sometimes try to get you to purchase the more expensive clubs or shafts. You can feel really good hitting their clubs in a simulator after swinging for an hour. Make sure you are getting lessons from a good instructor. In my experience it is the Indian, not the arrow.

Experiencing different iron shafts was an eye opener. For months at the PGA Superstore, I was able to try used clubs at will, while I was in a practice bay with my own clubs. Sadly, this is no longer available, as some customers abused the practice -- maybe even walking out with some clubs.

My current irons have stepless rifled shafts, stiff flex, either 125 or 130 grams. They work OK, but aren't optimal for me. They're heavy and boardy -- but precise and repeatable. The high-ish kick point works OK for me, as I tend to spin the ball pretty well and get reasonable peak flight height. The faster I swing, the better these clubs feel. But it's hard for me to keep that up for 18 holes.

I found out that I don't care much for existing graphite shafts on the market. They're generally too light and too flexible. I thought the new-ish heavier shafts might work -- but I didn't like the feel of Steelfiber or MMT shafts. I'm interested in Fujikura's Axiom shafts, but haven't seen any yet. The Axiom's price point is a challenge.

I think shaft weight is as important as flex & kick point. Given my extended use of heavy shafts, the lighter ones feel odd to me. I don't like 100 grams and under. 105-115 grams feels about right. True Temper steel just works -- Dynamic Gold and Elevate. KBS is decent, but at a flex softer than True Temper. A KBS regular feels like a TT stiff to me. I did hit some heavier 120-125 gram shafts that felt OK -- TT Dynamic Gold, Nippon Modus, Project X.

Graphite shafts do a great job of reducing vibration to the hands from off strikes. They generally result in higher club head speed, higher launch angles, higher spin, and longer distances. A common downside is greater dispersion -- lateral and distance.

A good lesson I learned about shaft flex -- it's not how fast you swing, but how you swing fast. My swing has been called "deliberate" -- slow take away, short pause at the top, and fairly consistent acceleration through the downswing. I like the feel of regular flex, but tend to have a little better dispersion with stiff flex. I even enjoy hitting senior flex shafts, as long as they aren't too light. In mid summer my 7 iron head speed was often 83-85 mph. After pushing weights in the gym through much of the winter, I'm now in the 86-88 ballpark. I can stretch to 90-91 mph, but my consistency suffers.

Hit every shaft you can, even if you think up front that it isn't the right shaft for you.

I went to the local PGA Superstore tonight because of all the suggestions. They didn't have much in the way of Scotty putters, but the service was outstanding. They were busy but still took the time to answer my questions and let me try out a few clubs. It makes sense why a few of you have mentioned them. $150 for an unlimited membership to hit in a bay isn't a bad deal either. If I didn't have a mat at my house I'd take them up on that.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
PGA Superstore...didn't have much in the way of Scotty putters...

$150 for an unlimited membership to hit in a bay isn't a bad deal either. If I didn't have a mat at my house I'd take them up on that.

If you're willing to pay the freight for a Scotty Cameron milled putter, you should also look at Toulon Design.

Last year my PGA store upgraded their 7 "public" practice bays to full projector impact screens with GCHawk launch monitors. Plus 5 more GCHawk bays for supervised fitting. Plus 2 more Trackman bays for custom club fitting. The store invested heavily, as the bays used to be nets (not projector screens) with GC2 launch monitors. I've now played all 14 of the base golf courses offered in their Foresight software. Going forward I'll choose different tees on these courses to emphasize different parts of my game.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
If I go that way I'd buy 4-PW and would need a new 50 degree GW. Would it pay to go with one from them or a CBX or Vokey SM9?

You should hit multiple wedges to find what works best for you.

I like the Vokey SM9 and hit it well. Not so much with the SM8 -- could be just a mental block with me. I also like blade wedges by Ping, Cleveland, and to a lesser extend Callaway. I don't seem to hit Taylor's blade wedges well.

The Cleveland CBX is a nice club. I hit it well and spin it fast. Same with Callaway's Mack Daddy. These wedges are definitely more forgiving than blades. Blades have a great feel when struck pure, but there distance falls off quite a bit with off-center strikes. I don't feel my ball striking is consistent enough to play true blades.

I will almost certainly go with Ping Glide 4.0 wedges once I finalize my iron purchase. They have a small cavity back and a great feel. Not true game improvement like CBX and Mack Daddy.

Consider sole width and shape in your wedges, and how it reacts with turf. Like tour-level irons, blade wedges tend to have narrower soles than game improvement wedges. The GI wedges are wider to get the center of gravity down, and to help the average golfer who hits shots fat. The soles of CBX and Mack Daddy are quite wide. Ping Glide 4.0 is kinda in the middle.

For a video on sole design and turf interaction, go to the youtube site Tour Experience Golf (TXG). Look for clip that's a year or two old -- search "turf interaction". Ian hits two Mizuno irons -- Tour and Hot Metal outdoors. The effects of sole width are hard to judge indoors from a mat, but they show up on grass.

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Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:
If I go that way I'd buy 4-PW and would need a new 50 degree GW. Would it pay to go with one from them or a CBX or Vokey SM9?

You should hit multiple wedges to find what works best for you.

+1

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Originally posted by fritz:
The Cleveland CBX is a nice club. I hit it well and spin it fast.

I love my 54° CBX. When I get it right around the green the ball pops up, comes down, hits the brakes, and stops

(My 58° is even more impressive. I've actually had the ball reverse when it hit the green - lol)

But, out of the sand, which was meant to be the primary role for the 58° CBX, I have to give the nod to my Cleveland Smart Sole 4. That and the technique taught by Golf Sidekick cured my bunker anxiety

Sounds like you are doing quite well and have lots of options!

I’d be curious how much difference something like Mizuno JPX 923 irons or Taylormade Stealth drivers help someone that truly hits poorly and inconsistently. I know exactly what happens with my 25 year old clubs and it’s not pretty.