https://abcnews.go.com/US/wire...ool-shooter-69444187

Suit: Website sold ammo to underage accused Texas shooter

A lawsuit alleges that a teenager accused of fatally shooting 10 people at a Texas high school in 2018 was able to buy more than 100 rounds of ammunition online because his age was not verified

By The Associated Press
March 6, 2020, 5:58 PM

SANTA FE, Texas -- A teenager accused of fatally shooting 10 people at a Texas high school in 2018 was able to buy more than 100 rounds of ammunition online because his age was not verified, according to a lawsuit alleging that the website involved broke federal law.

Dimitrios Pagourtzis was a 17-year-old junior at the time of the May 2018 shooting at Santa Fe High School. Federal law prohibits minors from purchasing handgun ammunition, and bars licensed gun companies from selling handgun or shotgun ammunition to minors or anyone they have reason to believe is under the age of 21.

According to an amended lawsuit filed Thursday, Pagourtzis initially ordered 50 rounds of hollow-point handgun ammunition and 105 rounds of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition, the Houston Chronicle reported. Two weeks later, he purchased an additional 35 rounds of shotgun ammunition — both times from the website Luckygunner.com that did not require him to make an account, submit proof of age or set-up a secure two-step authorization, the filing said.

Among those killed at the school was a Pakistani exchange student whose parents filed the amended petition. It's part of a lawsuit filed against the suspect's parents, Rose Marie Kosmetatos and Antonios Pagourtzis, alleging they knew their son was exhibiting extreme behavior and yet failed to prevent him from accessing their firearms, which authorities believe were used in the shooting.

Luckygunner.com, along with its owners, Red Stag, have been listed as additional defendants in the amended lawsuit, which claims Red Stag mailed the ammunition via FedEx without requiring an adult to sign for the package. Neither Luckygunner.com nor Red Stag responded to requests from the Houston Chronicle for comment.

Everytown Law, the legal arm for Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund, a nationwide group, filed the petition on behalf of Abdul Aziz Sheikh and Farah Naz, the parents of Sabika Sheikh, who arrived as an exchange student last August.

In a statement, Sheikh's parents said they are committed to fighting for accountability and for a safer future.

“People need to know just how easy it was for the shooter to buy ammunition from a website that failed to take even basic steps to protect the public,” the statement said.

Pagourtzis was charged with capital murder and faces life in prison. He is being held at a maximum-security mental health facility.

It sucks, but if they didn't have their ordering and age verification processes in order, this might stick.

I've bought lots of ammo online, but cannot remember ever having my age verified or ever having to sign for a shipment.

quote:

Originally posted by wreckdiver:
I've bought lots of ammo online, but cannot remember ever having my age verified or ever having to sign for a shipment.

Aim Surplus used to require you to upload a gov't issued ID to verify age.

Do they not ship requiring an adult signature?

I have never had to sign for ammo. Different states have different rules.

Bloomberg money at work.

I think the shooter's access to his parents firearms was problem # 1.

A 13-year old computer savvy kid could order ammo, if they put their mind to it, using their parents or a stolen credit card #, and drivers's license .

Perhaps this is another angle of atteck.

I have bought a lot of ammo from Lucky Gunner and like the company. I want to continue to buy ammo from them. I sure hope this works out OK for them.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Bloomberg money at work.

Yup

Come to think of it... I don't think any on-line ammo seller has ever verified my identity or age.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
I think the shooter's access to his parents firearms was problem # 1.

A 13-year old computer savvy kid could order ammo, if they put their mind to it, using their parents or a stolen credit card #, and drivers's license .

Perhaps this is another angle of atteck.

One of the first questions that came to mind while reading the article was how, exactly, does a 17 year old kid pay for ammo during an online transaction. To the best of my knowledge, ammo websites require electronic payment such as credit or debit cards.

If the shooter did steal a card then I would think that should be a criminal charge as well. Short of requiring legal proof of age, which some ammo sites require, I can't imagine how else they would verify age.

Personally speaking, I'm not a big fan of having a copy of my ID on record with various website vendors, ripe for hackers to obtain...and requiring adult signature means an adult needs to be present at the shipping destination when the ammo arrives, so if being shipped to a home address, an adult may need to take a day off from work.

The last time I ordered a large quantity of ammo I was working nights, sleeping days, and so had it delivered to a family member who worked from home.

This whole displacing blame trend for a tragedy, on other parties besides the guilty party, is getting very old and annoying.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
This whole displacing blame trend for a tragedy on other parties besides the guilty party is getting very old and annoying.

Absolutely.

Does the shipment not have to be marked ORM-D?

Wondering if it was packaged correctly, but the shipper failed to hold up their end and get an adult signature.

Those that say they've gotten ammo left at the door, was it marked properly?

I get all my ammo online. No signature needed and it is left on my porch. Markings vary. My last shipment had the ammo symbol but no ORM lettering.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Do they not ship requiring an adult signature?

I've ordered a lot of ammo on-line and it usually ships without a requirement for an adult signature--it's just left at my door.

flashguy

It, however, requires a credit card (or, potentially a PO or other billing agreement), so the responsible party must be 18, no?

quote:

Originally posted by hile:
It, however, requires a credit card (or, potentially a PO or other billing agreement), so the responsible party must be 18, no?

Lots of kids have debit and/or credit cards, either a secondary card on a parent's account, or on a joint account with a parent, or just one of their parents' cards.

Or they go to any store and purchase a Visa gift card big enough to cover the purchase. Simple to do.

This thread is a good example of how gun owners are their own worst enemy.

Clearly, we need more laws and restrictions because you didn't sign for a package and the delivery guy didn't check 6 forms of your I'D

Let's ban online sales of ammo just to be on the safe side.......for the children's sake!