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Originally posted by jljones:

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Originally posted by smschulz:

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Originally posted by jljones:


But, yet, they think that a person legitimately under surveillance is going to suffer no consequence for tampering with evidence in the criminal case against them. That the “Shit, my bad bro” defense is actually going to work this time.

So what is the actual law then?
Be specific, don't cite some bullshit about theft because we know that it does not apply.
I get it you do not want someone to thwart an investigation but how is it illegal?
You plant a mic in a room and someone finds it - can you stomp it like a bug>
Of course you can.
Would anyone listening in like that - I am sure not.

Theft by unlawful taking (receiving stolen property is actually a much easier charge to prosecute) and tampering with physical evidence for starters.

Specifically.

There is no law and nothing to prosecute. You're putting something on someone's privately owned property without their permission or approval. They are free to take it off and throw it out. Court order just allows you to install the device on someone's property, unless the car owner is part of the court order and knows about it and agrees to it, like an installed DUI interlock device. Once you put your device onto property that someone else privately owns, legally it becomes their property, unless their is some other agreement and the property owner is made aware of it.

They didn't receive stolen property, you put your property onto their vehicle unbeknownst to them, so that charge doesn't apply. Tampering with physical evidence also does not apply, unless the device is clearly labelled property of the sheriff's department or they were notified of it being installed and agreed to it.

Me thinks jljones has been smoking a bit too much of the FBI surveillance crack pipe.

Oh please put me on the jury.
I may not make it through the full trial, however.
When the prosecutor starts to bring up charges for someone removing an unmarked item from their car, I am bound to bust a gut laughing.

Mr. Police: He stoled my unmarked GPS.
Judge: Where did the theft occur?
Mr. Police: I left it on his car, and he threw it in the garbage.
Jury: (Laughing loudly)

Hey, if you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide...

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

Theft by unlawful taking (receiving stolen property is actually a much easier charge to prosecute) and tampering with physical evidence for starters.

Specifically.

That's the best you can do?

Jjones, not making any arguments that would away me. If I found a monitoring device on my car, on my person, or in my house, I'm flushing, trashing, or planting away from me.

If I knew I was a subject of an investigation, I'd ask my lawyer what to do with it.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-p...racker-from-his-car/

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Back in 2012, the US Supreme Court ruled that it's illegal for the police to attach a GPS tracking device to someone's car without a warrant. But what if you find a GPS tracking device on your car? Can you remove it?

A little more than a year ago, the state of Indiana charged a suspected drug dealer with theft for removing a government-owned GPS tracking device from his SUV. This month, the state's Supreme Court began considering the case, and some justices seemed skeptical of the government's argument.

"I'm really struggling with how is that theft," said Justice Steven David during recent oral arguments.

I'd electrically "fry" the thing, a in a HUGE direct electrostatic discharge . I have the means and the knowledge, and NOBODY would be able to prove why it "just stopped working."

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Can you pry a police GPS tracker off your car?

It shouldn't be difficult.

A large screwdriver will probably do the job.

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Originally posted by DennisM: The boss LOVED that story, especially the part about "It's borrowed from another agency and we owe them around four grand if we can't find it."

$4k? Every time I buy a car from a dealer, they try to sell me a Lojack and it's not even close to that expensive. Don't the work the same way?

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Originally posted by Rick Lee:

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Originally posted by DennisM: The boss LOVED that story, especially the part about "It's borrowed from another agency and we owe them around four grand if we can't find it."

$4k? Every time I buy a car from a dealer, they try to sell me a Lojack and it's not even close to that expensive. Don't the work the same way?

They do to some degree. The big thing is the power source. What you are being offered generally is hard wired into the car, and because discovery isn’t a big deal, size isn’t either.

When you are talking something state of the art and small ($4k is on the cheap side), you’re going to pay for it.

This is a head scratcher.

A large number of used cars financed for low-credit score buyers have a lo-jack (or similar device) installed by the used car dealer - hard wired to the car. The new owner probably doesn't know about it (in which case it probably could be disconnected or removed) or maybe its mentioned in the small print (in which case the new owner would be liable for damages or replacement cost if it got harmed or thrown away).

And, as someone noted, virtually all new cars have cell phones built in - All BMWs (Assist), Ford (Sync), VW (Car-Net), GM (On-Star), Fiat-Chrysler (U-Connect), etc. Even if you don't subscribe, it's in there, and can be turned on remotely to track you - or even listen to your conversations in the car.

I guess purpose-built GPS trackers are going to be obsolete one of these days...

If the device in question wasn’t marked as property of the police department, I don’t see how the owner could be charged with theft for removing it, warrant or not. If it was so marked, I can’t see a way someone could be charged with theft if they removed it and, say, attached it to a semi at the local truck stop and claimed ignorance. Our prosecutor would laugh a theft charge out of their office and tell us to hide it better next time.

I bet some of you guys would pull the tag off a mattress too.

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Originally posted by kz1000:
I bet some of you guys would pull the tag off a mattress too.

I pull them off every mattress and pillow I own.

How do you give someone a $4,000 piece of equipment and then claim the person stole it? What's next, putting a Rolex in someone's backpack and claiming the backpack owner stole it?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

I glanced over the original court reporting and it seems the devise was put on a suspected drug dealers car (not sure with a warrant or not) and the suspected dealer removed it and hid it away in his barn... the police then issued a search warrant to find it and in that search found illegal drugs.... now this is all very subject to internet lawyering.... in the search they did end up finding the GPS devise locked in a metal box. My only thought is whether I was the drug dealer or an innocent citizen when I found it I would drive somewhere I could not be observed...remove it and dispose of it... not keep it around.

My truck already tells big brother where it is all the time. The NSA is already listening in on all my phone calls, my I pad is recording me while I watch porn, my smart speakers are recording what goes on in my house, and satellites and cameras are looking down on me whenever I go outside. So much internet bravado and fury over a hypothetical court ordered intrusion. Big brother does not want your freedoms, he wants your money, if the people who want to strip us our our last few freedoms where half as smart as the people who are so good at taking our money we would be left without either. Wrap that tinfoil on tight, and keep your dog in the house.

If the above is accurate it seems like big brother could literally “lose” a tracker and get a search warrant at will. More likely is that if they have enough to get a court order for a tracker then they also have enough to get a search warrant when they want it. That’s where I would put my money.

You guys aren't thinking clearly. You take the tracker off your car, drive to the mall and drop it on the ground as you're leaving. Then your story is you had no idea you were being tracked and it's not your fault that the damn thing fell off.

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Originally posted by kz1000:
I bet some of you guys would pull the tag off a mattress too.

It says only the final consumer can. Who knows if I'm going to die owning that thing. I don't want to write my own death sentence.