This thread is weird. I just want to know what Jimineer did.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
Some random thread drift that occurred to me...

Here in CO your automobile is considered an "Extension of your home". I know this specifically because it's related to firearms. Here in CO you do not need a CCW/permit/whatever to have a concealed handgun in your car. If you are legally allowed to posses a handgun, you can carry it in your vehicle without government permission (permit) and you are not breaking the law.

I realize these are state specific laws, just wondering how the opinions would change since the police are attaching something to "an extension of your home". Maybe nothing changes, just curious.

A court order is still going to be a court order. Just the same if it was to wire tap your house.

Once again if you are unaware of said order and the only markings on tracker say Acme Co. Why are you not allowed to remove it?

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
Some random thread drift that occurred to me...

Here in CO your automobile is considered an "Extension of your home". I know this specifically because it's related to firearms. Here in CO you do not need a CCW/permit/whatever to have a concealed handgun in your car. If you are legally allowed to posses a handgun, you can carry it in your vehicle without government permission (permit) and you are not breaking the law.

I realize these are state specific laws, just wondering how the opinions would change since the police are attaching something to "an extension of your home". Maybe nothing changes, just curious.

This "extension of your home" myth is not unique to Colorado. You can put this right next to the "you can hit them in the thumb with a .45 and it will knock them down".

Just because you can possess a firearm in your car and your home does not make your car "an extension of your home". To my knowledge there is no legal connection between your car and your home.

I think there is some confusion here between probable cause or a judge's order allowing the placing of a tracker, and the legal responsibilities of the subject of the order. If you find an unmarked device on your property, you can without a doubt dispose of the device. Even if it were labeled "property of Podunk Police Dept", you are under no obligation to leave it on your vehicle.

You could argue that you should return it to the Police Department, but you have no legal obligation to do so. I have no doubt that pissed off cops might try to charge you with destruction of property, theft, whatever, but no way that those charges are legit or would hold up in court.

If a neighbor kid leaves his ball in your yard, I think you can throw the ball in the garbage. That makes you an asshole, not a criminal.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
This thread is weird. I just want to know what Jimineer did.

Haha. Yeah, we gotsta know!

These things have gotten so small that they are easy to squirrel away where they aren't easy to find. Most of those with these types of concerns aren't worried about the Police, but use signal detectors to see if anything is broadcasting. There are more sophisticated units that can be turned off and on. Those are dealt with using a combination of detectors or jamming devices.

Oh, and if you find one, you probably didn't find the one they're using.

Is it legal to sell my car if there is a tracker on it that I had no idea was there? Would I be charged with theft of government property then? What about if I was in a car accident, and unbeknownst to me there was a tracker destroyed in the accident, charged with destruction of government property?

I just checked my truck. I found three police GPS trackers and one of those little magnetic refrigerator signs from CiCi's Pizza.

I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. First thing tomorrow, I'm calling CiCi's Pizza.

The last time I had a tracker on a subject's car, she sold the damn car with the tracker still attached after the battery on the device went dead but before we could retrieve it. Oh, yeah. The boss LOVED that story, especially the part about "It's borrowed from another agency and we owe them around four grand if we can't find it."

Pre-2015, no PC or warrant was needed if we could a) install the device while the vehicle was in a public place, and b) could do so without intruding into the vehicle's interior. SCOTUS since ruled that a tracking warrant (or state equivalent) is necessary no matter what.

Since the same facts that'd establish PC for a GPS track would probably also justify a court order to track a phone (less equipment on my end, and often more reliable) GPS trackers gather dust in my tiny, white-collar-crime world.

None of which really goes to the OP's question, except that if you intentionally dispose of my equipment I can probably find SOME state law that'd apply. Theft of Property Mislaid?

Probably better to park the car, call a lawyer, and start cold-calling prosecutors until you find the right one to make a deal with.

How come I didn't find any trackers on my car?

Nobody loves me...

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
Some random thread drift that occurred to me...

Here in CO your automobile is considered an "Extension of your home". I know this specifically because it's related to firearms. Here in CO you do not need a CCW/permit/whatever to have a concealed handgun in your car. If you are legally allowed to posses a handgun, you can carry it in your vehicle without government permission (permit) and you are not breaking the law.

I realize these are state specific laws, just wondering how the opinions would change since the police are attaching something to "an extension of your home". Maybe nothing changes, just curious.

This "extension of your home" myth is not unique to Colorado. You can put this right next to the "you can hit them in the thumb with a .45 and it will knock them down".

Just because you can possess a firearm in your car and your home does not make your car "an extension of your home". To my knowledge there is no legal connection between your car and your home.

I think there is some confusion here between probable cause or a judge's order allowing the placing of a tracker, and the legal responsibilities of the subject of the order. If you find an unmarked device on your property, you can without a doubt dispose of the device. Even if it were labeled "property of Podunk Police Dept", you are under no obligation to leave it on your vehicle.

You could argue that you should return it to the Police Department, but you have no legal obligation to do so. I have no doubt that pissed off cops might try to charge you with destruction of property, theft, whatever, but no way that those charges are legit or would hold up in court.

If a neighbor kid leaves his ball in your yard, I think you can throw the ball in the garbage. That makes you an asshole, not a criminal.

That Extension of your Home is famous down here. I have fun with it.

I just found one on my car.



Those sneaky bastards!



.

I dunno. Me and Jimineer were just eating the other day at Los Pollos Hermanos and we see this dude hanging around his car. Weird, right?

ETA: well crap, cas beat me to the reference....

quote:

Originally posted by charlie12:

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
Some random thread drift that occurred to me...

Here in CO your automobile is considered an "Extension of your home". I know this specifically because it's related to firearms. Here in CO you do not need a CCW/permit/whatever to have a concealed handgun in your car. If you are legally allowed to posses a handgun, you can carry it in your vehicle without government permission (permit) and you are not breaking the law.

I realize these are state specific laws, just wondering how the opinions would change since the police are attaching something to "an extension of your home". Maybe nothing changes, just curious.

This "extension of your home" myth is not unique to Colorado. You can put this right next to the "you can hit them in the thumb with a .45 and it will knock them down".

Just because you can possess a firearm in your car and your home does not make your car "an extension of your home". To my knowledge there is no legal connection between your car and your home.

I think there is some confusion here between probable cause or a judge's order allowing the placing of a tracker, and the legal responsibilities of the subject of the order. If you find an unmarked device on your property, you can without a doubt dispose of the device. Even if it were labeled "property of Podunk Police Dept", you are under no obligation to leave it on your vehicle.

You could argue that you should return it to the Police Department, but you have no legal obligation to do so. I have no doubt that pissed off cops might try to charge you with destruction of property, theft, whatever, but no way that those charges are legit or would hold up in court.

If a neighbor kid leaves his ball in your yard, I think you can throw the ball in the garbage. That makes you an asshole, not a criminal.

That Extension of your Home is famous down here. I have fun with it.

What if you park your car inside of your home, then can you remove the device?

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
How come I didn't find any trackers on my car?

Nobody loves me...

Noboooody knooows the trouble you've done

How would a person know if there was one on the car? Do they have a red blinking LED? Is there a special tool that scans for a signal?

First, mattress tags, now this crap...

quote:

Originally posted by cparktd:
Would they not have to prove that it didn't just fall off?

Remove... toss out the window on the freeway.

My thought as well, if ever asked about it, just play ignorant about said device.

So it's legal because it's your dog....

quote:

PC is PC. There aren't different levels.

While I agree with you entirely, our local judges take the position that ongoing surveillance is more intrusive than a one time search and thus requires a much higher threshold of what constitutes sufficient probable cause. For all intents and purposes, if I can get authorization for a wiretap or a tracker I already have enough evidence that I could indict without the additional information that might be provided by the tap or tracker. While PC is PC, the amount of information required to establish PC absolutely changes based on what we want and which judge we talk to on a given day. In my attempt at brevity (mixed with a touch of sarcasm) I was perhaps unclear.

Hypothetically, if all I want to do is track a suspect's movements during a time frame there are much easier methods that don't require someone to crawl up under a car without being seen and risk the loss of equipment paid for out of ever shrinking budgets.

Now going back to the original question of "can I pry the tracker off." Sure you can. It's your car and it's just held on with a magnet or maybe a strip of 3M tape. If, however, that device was planted by law enforcement with valid legal authorization then it likely isn't the only way you are currently being tracked and will almost certainly be replaced by other methods.

Everyone has a tracker in their car called a cell phone. Don't forget to throw those out the window