As a longtime peace officer, there are only three off-duty situations where I would even consider identifying myself and/or using deadly force:

1. Someone running after and actually shooting at another person.

2. Being where an armed robbery is taking place AND the suspect(s) starts to take employees and/or customers into the back room (only purpose for that is to execute everyone).

3. I would ID myself if I encountered a male beating a female, a child, or elderly/disabled person and then let the suspect’s actions dictate whether to escalate and display my weapon.

Short of those three, I would be a good witness.

...never get out of the boat...

quote:

Originally posted by snoris:
As a longtime peace officer, there are only three off-duty situations where I would even consider identifying myself and/or using deadly force:

1. Someone running after and actually shooting at another person.

since we are professional Monday morning quarterbacks, what if the guy chasing and shooting was chasing a bad guy who'd just killed his family?

In Maryland, what exactly is a "state-certified" firearms instructor? What does an individual have to do to attain such status? To connect it to this story, and the possession of a "may-issue" CCW, it seems logical that the shooter has some LE standing in the eyes of MD laws.

By way of contrast, to my knowledge VA offers no such certifications, nor has anyone I've ever talked to from MD has referenced such a thing. Some of these individuals were folks taking the NRA Instructors class, so it would have been natural for it to come up in conversation.

In TN you have to be certified by the state to teach the class and proctor the exam.

I can assure you that there is no inferred LEO status.

Certainly, not enough facts for me to comment on.

The only fact that I'm somewhat sure of is that a Senior Airman (E4) is not any kind of an officer.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Certainly, not enough facts for me to comment on.

Exactly, we have zero info on exactly what the situation was and everyone is jumping to conclusions that this guy was a wannabe hero who should have minded his own business.

That may be true (and is my default position, to mind my business), or it could be Jerome and co were moments away from busting caps into innocent people and that fact would have been obvious to any of us had we been there and he saved lives...we don’t know.

Yeah, I'm going with the 'not getting involved' for $400, Alex.

Being a good witness is usually the best approach when you have no idea what the facts are.

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:

quote:

Originally posted by snoris:
As a longtime peace officer, there are only three off-duty situations where I would even consider identifying myself and/or using deadly force:

1. Someone running after and actually shooting at another person.

since we are professional Monday morning quarterbacks, what if the guy chasing and shooting was chasing a bad guy who'd just killed his family?

Please note that I used “consider” and “and/or” in my post, not “shoot him immediately.”

Not judging and have kind of jumped psst most of the comments....

but "2:00 a.m. outside a bar" is not where you will ever find me..... I have never heard of anything good happening when these two things coincide.
(I don't care how good she looked inside the bar)

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I work private security twice per month at a bingo hall.
...
I'm there to be a fire extinguisher. And that is it.

It appears that's just what he was doing. From the article quoted in the OP:

quote:

Luckey was inside the restaurant when he noticed a group of people arguing in the back parking lot, Vinson said. According to police, Luckey walked up to the group to try to deescalate the argument when he noticed a man had a handgun.

I read that as him noticing the weapon only after he'd walked out to try to extinguish the fire in the parking lot. Assuming the narrative in the news report is accurate: What was he to do after he observed the weapon? Again assuming the news report is at all accurate: It sounds to me like he'd gotten himself into a no-win situation--all for trying to extinguish a fire in the parking lot.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I work private security twice per month at a bingo hall.
...
I'm there to be a fire extinguisher. And that is it.

It appears that's just what he was doing. From the article quoted in the OP:

quote:

Luckey was inside the restaurant when he noticed a group of people arguing in the back parking lot, Vinson said. According to police, Luckey walked up to the group to try to deescalate the argument when he noticed a man had a handgun.

I read that as him noticing the weapon only after he'd walked out to try to extinguish the fire in the parking lot. Assuming the narrative in the news report is accurate: What was he to do after he observed the weapon? Again assuming the news report is at all accurate: It sounds to me like he'd gotten himself into a no-win situation--all for trying to extinguish a fire in the parking lot.

In today's society that isn't fire, that is barely smoke.

The question to ask is would a reasonable person look at the totality of the situation (Baltimore, 2AM in the morning, yelling group of people IN THE PARKING LOT) and say to themselves, you know, I need to go over there and stick my nose into this just because I have a gun?

The answer, of course, is absolutely not. As I said, life as he knows it is over, and despite the stretches at trying to make this seem justified, for the rest of his life he'll wish that he kept his nose out of the business of others. Because based upon what you say, he went over and precipitated a killing that didn't have to be.

You, nor I, have to reap the consequences of the actual details. Luckily. We get the luxury and comfort of being able to discuss it, and then I'm headed back upstairs to finish cleaning the bathroom, and then out to PT. And I doubt after you read this you'll give it much thought either. This guy will have it in his mind for a long while.

In the course of human history, how many times has a stranger successfully deescalated an argument between others in a bar parking after midnight?

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
In the course of human history, how many times has a stranger successfully deescalated an argument between others in a bar parking after midnight?

Only when that stranger was a pair of titties.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
In the course of human history, how many times has a stranger successfully deescalated an argument between others in a bar parking after midnight?

Only when that stranger was a pair of titties.

Isn’t that pair often the cause of the drama? Something tells me that most times introducing that pair would be like throwing gasoline on a fire at least nine times out of ten.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

Isn’t that pair often the cause of the drama? Something tells me that most times introducing that pair would be like throwing gasoline on a fire at least nine times out of ten.

Come on. Two dudes are in an argument, and a beautiful woman who neither dude has ever seen before and has nothing to do with anything just dumps out her fun bags, I'm betting most guys are going to at least take a moment to stop arguing and take a look.

^^^^^^^^^^ He’s right, you know.

As a lifelong Maryland resident, this guy is toast.
Maryland is very anti CCW and it will outrage them that someone who they actually blessed with a carry permit would actually have the audacity to use a firearm in defense themselves or someone else.....
Well, like I said, I think the guy is toast.