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Race must be considered in determining legality of police stops and seizures, WA state Supreme Court rules Login/Join 
Nullus Anxietas
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Perhaps law enforcement should just plain stop arresting or detaining (e.g.: traffic stops) "people of color" altogether? Just let them have their way.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26081 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of HayesGreener
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I worked the street for a number of years, 7 of them on midnights. I rarely knew the race of the people in the vehicle I stopped until I got up to the car or the occupants got out.


CMSGT USAF (Retired)
Chief of Police (Retired)
 
Posts: 4382 | Location: Florida Panhandle | Registered: September 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Muzzle flash
aficionado
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I'm with jhe888--this will not stand constitutional muster.

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth
 
Posts: 27911 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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Leftist never have been on board with the progress of the civil rights era. They are determined to segregate, prejudice, divide and prevent meritorious advancement. They are bigots with ever evolving targets.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 30133 | Location: Norris Lake, TN | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hayes, that's interesting. Perhaps department or patrol car limitations in your situation.

In my situation, which wasn't unique in our department, we pretty much knew whether we were stopping white guys or people of color once we fell in behind them. Our patrol cars had these two mickey mouse light cans on top like the ones you'd see on a popular tv series in the late 60's early 70's. Anywhoo, after we baked the back of your neck in sealed beam Red Lights from these mickey mouse cans to pull you over, the passenger officer would illuminate you with a hand held spot light that could also send Morse code to the moon it was so bright. We even had to use this old fashion Motorola radio to tell dispatch what (lic #) we were out with and a general description of who was in the suspect vehicle (real general, like two male bla bla ...). No computers in the car at that time and no radio when you got out of the car.

In any case, it would have been unusual for us not to have a good idea on a possible race of the occupants while pulling the car over for a chat. Having said that, today there is a lot more window tinting than there was then so there is that.
 
Posts: 1482 | Location: Western WA | Registered: September 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can hear it now - "You're picking on me, 'cause I'm black".


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Posts: 8228 | Location: Arizona | Registered: August 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
Picture of Loswsmith
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quote:
Originally posted by jhe888:
That runs square into the 14th amendment. It won't last three seconds in a federal court.

They have lost their minds.


Maybe if this was under the 4th Amendment, but this was under Art. 1 Sec. 7 of the state constitution, which is more way protective/restrictive than the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution. So this decision not going to be appealed further, and won't change until and unless there is an outcome that forces a change of mind/law.


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Posts: 2147 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Isn't the 4th Amendment part of the US Constitution? I was under the impression that the Constitution was the supreme law of the land and overrode any laws in the states or local areas that violated it.

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth
 
Posts: 27911 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
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quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
Isn't the 4th Amendment part of the US Constitution? I was under the impression that the Constitution was the supreme law of the land and overrode any laws in the states or local areas that violated it.

flashguy


Well, that's the way the founding fathers designed it, doesn't mean that leftist politicians and judiciary at the state level will follow it....
 
Posts: 24844 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
I'm with jhe888--this will not stand constitutional muster.

flashguy


This is the Washington Supreme Court. If they decide a case on state constitutional grounds, doctrine of independent constitutional analysis says that they are the final arbiter. I have not read the decision itself, but any competent attorney is going to claim violations of both the federal and state constitution.
 
Posts: 5287 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What do you do with biracial suspects? Flip a coin?


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Posts: 13553 | Registered: January 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mistake Not...
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quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
Isn't the 4th Amendment part of the US Constitution? I was under the impression that the Constitution was the supreme law of the land and overrode any laws in the states or local areas that violated it.

flashguy


Washington's Constitution is different than the US Constitution. The US Constitution provides the "floor" but the WA Constitution is "more protective". The specific part: Article 1 Section 7 states: "No person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law." For 40 years or more the State Sup.Ct. has held this is more protective than the the 4th Amendment, meaning that what cops do in, say North Dakota, cops in WA can't or else face getting their case tossed.

This is a new and different spin on something that already existed and will be . . . interesting to see how it plays out.


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Life Member NRA & Washington Arms Collectors

Mistake not my current state of joshing gentle peevishness for the awesome and terrible majesty of the towering seas of ire that are themselves the milquetoast shallows fringing my vast oceans of wrath.

Velocitas Incursio Vis - Gandhi
 
Posts: 2147 | Location: T-town in the 253 | Registered: January 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The 4th Amendment says that no action or warrants can occur without probable cause, "supported by Oath or affirmation". The state constitution only says "without authority of law", which is a much less restrictive provision. A person filing a Red Flag accusation has probably not provided any "probable cause" and their Oath would not be enough to obtain a warrant.

This law is unconstituinal.

flashguy




Texan by choice, not accident of birth
 
Posts: 27911 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by flashguy:
The 4th Amendment says that no action or warrants can occur without probable cause, "supported by Oath or affirmation". The state constitution only says "without authority of law", which is a much less restrictive provision. A person filing a Red Flag accusation has probably not provided any "probable cause" and their Oath would not be enough to obtain a warrant.

This law is unconstituinal.

flashguy


The phrase "without authority of law" means whatever the Washington Supreme Court interprets it to me, so long as it is not less than the requirement under the US Constitution. This is precisely why state supreme courts have the final say on state constitutional matters.
 
Posts: 5287 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Too old to run,
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quote:
Originally posted by darthfuster:
Leftist never have been on board with the progress of the civil rights era. They are determined to segregate, prejudice, divide and prevent meritorious advancement. They are bigots with ever evolving targets.


Remember that this Washington state, and west of the mountains. Totally overwhelmed by the libtard idiots who got sick and tired of what they had created in kalifornistan, moved north and promptly recreated what they had run from in Kali. Some time ago there was a movement east of the mountain range in Washington and Oregon, to secede from those states and merge with Idaho. Didn't happen, of course.

I still have family living in Idaho and they are reporting how bad it has gotten with the refugees from kalifornistan taking over everything.


Elk

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The Idaho Elk Hunter
 
Posts: 25656 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 16, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
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It’s funny. Over a 30 career in law enforcement and a VAST majority of violators I dealt with were overwhelmingly white folk. I guess that means… I’m racist against white people? Certainly I was discriminatory at minimum.




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Posts: 16030 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Coin Sniper
Picture of Rightwire
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quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
It’s funny. Over a 30 career in law enforcement and a VAST majority of violators I dealt with were overwhelmingly white folk. I guess that means… I’m racist against white people? Certainly I was discriminatory at minimum.


Racism is what we tell you it is....




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Posts: 38566 | Location: Above the snow line in Michigan | Registered: May 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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quote:
Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
quote:
Originally posted by darthfuster:
Leftist never have been on board with the progress of the civil rights era. They are determined to segregate, prejudice, divide and prevent meritorious advancement. They are bigots with ever evolving targets.


Remember that this Washington state, and west of the mountains. Totally overwhelmed by the libtard idiots who got sick and tired of what they had created in kalifornistan, moved north and promptly recreated what they had run from in Kali. Some time ago there was a movement east of the mountain range in Washington and Oregon, to secede from those states and merge with Idaho. Didn't happen, of course.

I still have family living in Idaho and they are reporting how bad it has gotten with the refugees from kalifornistan taking over everything.


They are like locusts.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 30133 | Location: Norris Lake, TN | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
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quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
It’s funny. Over a 30 career in law enforcement and a VAST majority of violators I dealt with were overwhelmingly white folk. I guess that means… I’m racist against white people? Certainly I was discriminatory at minimum.
Me too. In 26 years as a LEO in Utah I arrested 9 blacks. Yes My PD kept track of our minority interactions. I have no idea how many white folks I arrested but considering I averaged 2-3 arrests a night in was easily in the thousands, probably nearly 10000. Clearly I was picking on the white folk. For shame....
 
Posts: 7752 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of spunk639
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quote:
Originally posted by gw3971:
quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
It’s funny. Over a 30 career in law enforcement and a VAST majority of violators I dealt with were overwhelmingly white folk. I guess that means… I’m racist against white people? Certainly I was discriminatory at minimum.
Me too. In 26 years as a LEO in Utah I arrested 9 blacks. Yes My PD kept track of our minority interactions. I have no idea how many white folks I arrested but considering I averaged 2-3 arrests a night in was easily in the thousands, probably nearly 10000. Clearly I was picking on the white folk. For shame....


The leftists and socialists would say you only encountered 9 blacks in 26 years.
 
Posts: 2902 | Location: Boston, Mass | Registered: December 02, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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