Well, fuck. That’s really going to bring climate change. Trees take in carbon dioxide and put out oxygen. Plus anywhere there are trees, it’s much cooler because they soak up the sun’s energy for their growth and give shade.

Solar panels will absorb the sunlight but not the heat.

This really proves the non-scientific stupidity of these climate activists and their politicians.

/Beavis laff
Heheh
“420 acres”
420
Heheh
/Beavis laff

Solar farms are popping up all over the place in mid MI. Their paying $1200 an acre lease for them which is way more money than the farmers can make farming them. My family has no interest in leasing to them.

What a waste of natural resources.

Projects like this are frequently built within eyeshot of heavily traveled highways much like many of the public housing projects. It's all about the message.

So, when are the climate change wackos going to protest?

I think they have been just awash handing out all types of ‘green energy’ subsidies. Of course those making solar panels don’t mind, often China.

A few years from now they’ll be crying when subsidies are cut, hopefully sooner. I just don’t care for boondoggle’s propped up with crony capitalism $$.

Long term leases for silvopasture would at least be beneficial to the soil/generate some revenue.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/nac/pr...ces/silvopasture.php

You all do realize that Michigan has almost 4 million acres of state forest land, right?

They harvest more acres of trees every year in regular forest management projects. And timber harvest provides revenue to manage those 4 million acres and the recreation opportunities they provide.

Nobody batted an eye when the .gov was paying people not to farm under CRP programs. "Where are we going to get food from?" Yet take it out of ag prduction at 3 times the current ag lease rates and people think we are going to starve to death.

I'm no solar/green energy fan. But our REPUBLICAN legislature doubled the current requirement and then the dems ran wild and said 100% renewable by 2040. Thus was created an artificial market. And private business is responding to that.

The amount of land being cleared is really just a tiny amount of the total state forest land, a lot less than a drop in the bucket. It also will produce revenue for the local units of government in the form of personal property taxes and create some jobs.

This is really a tempest in a teapot.

quote:

Originally posted by Appliance Brad:
This is really a tempest in a teapot.

How well do you imagine that solar array will perform in the dead of Michigan winters, Brad?

I suspect that 400+ acres of trees would remove more carbon dioxide from the air than that solar array will prevent.

This is a boondoggle, IMO.

As for "our" Republican legislators: Don't get me started. I've little more use for them than I do the Democrats.

How much pollution will the diesel-powered heavy equipment necessary to put this stuff up put out? A lot more than it's going to save, probably.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
How well do you imagine that solar array will perform in the dead of Michigan winters, Brad?

Well I'm 5 miles from the Ohio line so really southern MI and here I've noticed that they don't accumulate snow and the grass stays lusly green under them all winter.

As for output, I guess that's a worry for the shareholders. Because even if they have theoretical generation capacity on the books, you still have to create something (ie:electricity) to sell in order to create return on investment. But my guess is that people who are actually knowledgeable about what the output will be were involved in the citing process.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:I suspect that 400+ acres of trees would remove more carbon dioxide from the air than that solar array will prevent.

Well I haven't seen the aerial photoes to see if it actually is all forested nor do I know what it's forested with. Additionally, i have no idea if conifers (the most common species in this area) remove more or less CO that deciduous trees do.
But to the power companies, this is not about reducing CO but rather meeting the 100% renewable mandate by 2040. They've pretty well shut down completely all our coal plants and my preferred generation source (nuclear) is never coming back.

Change the law or let the private sector figure out how to meet the mandate. Right now, that is what business is trying to accomplish.

I don't have a problem with logging off a couple of hundred acres. It's good honest work and will provide a product to consumers.

However, I'm not convinced that production of energy on these scales really works or is worth the investment, especially at that latitude. I think solar is a great option for the individual homeowner if they can afford the up front costs, but what will this farm cost the state of MI, and will they recoup that cost? Another question would be what are they going to do with the power that is generated? Where will they store the batteries? Is there an environmental impact for the battery storage?

I assume they've run the numbers and it looks like a net win, but I'm not convinced that it's worth it vs. coal, nucear, hydroelectric.

The upside is if it doesn't work out, the trees will grow back. Then they'll have to figure out where to dump all of the used panels/batteries and the chemical components therein seeping into the ground water.

The other upside is that I'd much rather have a solar farm than a wind farm with all of those eyesores standing there.

The mess that Wretched Gretchen is even worse. For 2025 Michigan has passed a law that only Cage Free Eggs can be sold in Michigan. Now when you go to purchase eggs the display case is often empty and when there are perhaps 8 - 12 dozen egg cartons in the display they are 12 dollars or more per carton.

Great move there Gretchen, you insufferable BITCH. you have just removed an extremely HEALTHY source of protein from the kitchens of every low wage earning family in the state. Means they will substitute Pasta for Eggs and the stage 2 diabetes rate will surge even higher. I really have to wonder if the people who vote for these assholes will ever understand that today's Democrats are intent on killing the labor force in this country. I mean actual Murder in a very subtle fashion.

My concern is how much we the taxpayers are going to be obligated to pay for subsidies to the companies involved in this. And if for some reason the project fails during construction how much in no bid contracts will be let to complete the project.

I can’t nor will trust anything from this state’s Executive or Legislative Branches.

Last week, I had dinner with my college roommate. We hadn't seen each other in a decade.

The relevant part to this MI solar farm is that he had spent the previous 3 years leading the Pacific Northwest solar initiative for one of the largest mechanical contractors (turnkey engineering, procurement, and construction) in US. For example, solar and battery systems for hospitals. They struggled to get unsubsidized paybacks less than 30 years but if they could get subsidies the payback was about 7 years. Nearly all subsidies were from the federal or state government which meant the taxpayer was subsidizing.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
The mess that Wretched Gretchen is even worse. For 2025 Michigan has passed a law that only Cage Free Eggs can be sold in Michigan. Now when you go to purchase eggs the display case is often empty and when there are perhaps 8 - 12 dozen egg cartons in the display they are 12 dollars or more per carton.

Great move there Gretchen, you insufferable BITCH. you have just removed an extremely .

The law was passed in 2019 (PA 132 of 2019). Guess what? Republicans had a 22-16 majority in the Senate and a 58-52 majority in the House. So the blame is not on the governor she just signed the legislation. This rest firmly at the feet of the REPUBLICAN led legislature.

As mentioned above the Republicans when they controlled House, Senate and governor's mansion increased the renewable mandate from 10% to 20% by 2025. Yes the Dems went all in with a 100% requirement by 2040 but the R's don't get a pass on either of these issues.

For any of these projects, ask one question. If they are a good idea, why the need for subsidies or tax breaks?

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
For any of these projects, ask one question. If they are a good idea, why the need for subsidies or tax breaks?

Exactly.

As a follow up to the graphic posted by wcb in the OP -

For some additional perspective on the absolute unbridled insanity of the politically-correct driven energy policies in this country and much of the world, a modern Combined Cycle Gas Turbine power plant putting out up to 500 MW needs a footprint of about only 7 - 10 acres.

These plants are clean and efficient, are relatively easy to run, and do not in many ways impact the surrounding environment to the degree that other power plants do (i.e., water consumption for steam generation and cooling, creating nuclear fuel waste, etc.).

It is insane that we / the USA are not investing in these plants as much as we should be. Federal environmental regs make the financial prospects / profitability unattractive.

In the last 24 hours I've learned there is a significant push back on this from citizens. It's early but becoming more organized.

Update:
https://www.bridgemi.com/michi...ants-michigan-forest

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