quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
Big deal, this isn’t a “dealership”. It’s a small, unaffiliated shop.

Thus, leverage is greatly diminished. There may still be a way out, but it is nowhere near as likely if he bought it from a Toyota dealer.

EDIT: been reading some of their Google reviews (Midwest Auto Connection is the dealer), seems like this behavior is quite typical:

quote:

They get some interesting inventory but the salespeople could use some training. Also, be sure to check the vehicles thoroughly as I've noticed signs of "rebuilds" on some of their cars. Especially very noticeable bodywork and paint that isn't the greatest.

They are probably a lot of auction cars that need work and they may do the work on site, I'm not positive. But a lot of the work is clearly not "top notch".

I noticed on their site most of their cars come from western Pennsylvania.

One of the largest wholesale auctions in the country is in PA...

OK by golly, off to Google I go... . I think it will all turn out right. I can just show them this thread..

quote:

This guarantee is only valid for information that was reported to the DMV and not damage that was never officially reported.

That is probably the situation here. Somewhere it was fixed and not reported, cash deal to the body shop out of pocket, previous owner knew someone in a body shop that fixed it on the side, again cash changed hands, maybe the dealer or the dealer they got it from took it in on trade with the damage and sent it to his contract shop. There may be a threshold for reporting of damage, at least when airbags are deployed they find out. When I ran a Carfax on my wife's Aztek before we sold it that showed airbags were deployed in a collision which they were.

One thing, the noise with turning, make sure that they check the Constant Velocity (CV) joints in the front drive axle, they will make noise if they are going bad.

Don't underestimate the leverage a little local media attention can give you. Especially if there's a history of this and with your story, the dealer likely wouldn't want the PR disaster that a human interest story on the news could create.

I show them this topic, they will probably pay me back in cash... . Go something like...Here's your money, gimme the keys.

I might just let them know how I came about buying the Sienna... . There aint noone gonna mess with 85,000 Members.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:

quote:

This guarantee is only valid for information that was reported to the DMV and not damage that was never officially reported.

That is probably the situation here. Somewhere it was fixed and not reported, cash deal to the body shop out of pocket, previous owner knew someone in a body shop that fixed it on the side, again cash changed hands, maybe the dealer or the dealer they got it from took it in on trade with the damage and sent it to his contract shop. There may be a threshold for reporting of damage, at least when airbags are deployed they find out. When I ran a Carfax on my wife's Aztek before we sold it that showed airbags were deployed in a collision which they were.

One thing, the noise with turning, make sure that they check the Constant Velocity (CV) joints in the front drive axle, they will make noise if they are going bad.

Or it just never got reported. Not every body shop and insurance company report to Carfax or the aggregations companies that Carfax pulls from. Working in insurance, I have access to reports that are far far more in depth than carfax and we regularly see cars with prior claims but a clean carfax. Carfax has sold everyone a bill of good that they are the silver bullet when it comes to car buying. It's a good tool but not a replacement for a good walk around and a pre-purchase inspection by and independent 3rd party.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Don't underestimate the leverage a little local media attention can give you. Especially if there's a history of this and with your story, the dealer likely wouldn't want the PR disaster that a human interest story on the news could create.

Please please please don't do this. These tiny dealers don't have social media managers who care about their public perception.

The chances of your 'story' going viral is slim to none and even when it happens, the dealer gives everyone a week off, shuts down, waits for the internet to find something else to rage about and life goes on.

Nothing makes a representative's eyes roll harder than people telling them how they will spread the news all over social media. It's a good way to get no where.

Lets not use the memberships participation as a carrot/stick/bargaining chip. Negotiating for positive or negative reviews by members here, isn't fair to anyone. I'd recommend checking with the owner before you involve Sigforum in any manor.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Lets not use the memberships participation as a carrot/stick/bargaining chip. Negotiating for positive or negative reviews by members here, isn't fair to anyone. I'd recommend checking with the owner before you involve Sigforum in any manor.

I would never do that arc. That was funny deepocean..

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Originally posted by Scurvy:

The chances of your 'story' going viral is slim to none and even when it happens, the dealer gives everyone a week off, shuts down, waits for the internet to find something else to rage about and life goes on.

Nothing makes a representative's eyes roll harder than people telling them how they will spread the news all over social media. It's a good way to get no where.

I said local media, not social media.

I wouldn't suggest doing this without proper legal advice, but I'm assuming you paid with a cashier's check or money order?

So long as that has not yet been cleared by the bank, payment can be stopped.

I once had an auto deal that went sideways, and when I was told to get bent I stopped payment on the cashier's check. The other party was a bit more understanding to my point of view afterwords.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

I said local media, not social media.

Somehow, I think a story with the headline: “Local used car dealer not completely honest” wouldn’t exactly be earthshattering.

Besides, this isn’t a major issue that is leaving the car useless... it’s some undisclosed bodywork and repairs that need to be completed.

If it was a single mother of 4 kids, she bought a car and the engine completely seized up after driving it off the lot due to horrible undisclosed dealer repsirs, THEN media might help. For this? Not even close to likely.

Or maybe, just maybe, the story could read, guy down on his luck and in need of help helped out through the goodness of everyday people, who is then ripped off by dishonest dealer. Its all in the way you shape the story/conversation.

And putting a stop on the check (if possible) is a great way to introduce a measure of 'flexibility' to the dealers attitude.

I did give them a Cashiers check Friday. I can check with my Credit Union in the morning.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
I did give them a Cashiers check Friday. I can check with my Credit Union in the morning.

If you gave it to them Friday afternoon, you can pretty much bet it hasn't cleared your CU yet. Get by the CU first thing in the morning and put a hold on the check, then go see the dealer. This is a key bargaining chip for you to use.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
I wouldn't suggest doing this without proper legal advice, but I'm assuming you paid with a cashier's check or money order?

So long as that has not yet been cleared by the bank, payment can be stopped.

I once had an auto deal that went sideways, and when I was told to get bent I stopped payment on the cashier's check. The other party was a bit more understanding to my point of view afterwords.

Stopping payment after taking delivery of a vehicle in most states will creat a very big problem. Stopping payment on a check in order to avoid payment of a legitmate debt may be a criminal act of fraud, governed by state fraud laws, which vary by state. David, before stopping payment make sure you find out from someone compitant about stopping payment. If the people at the bank tell you that it fully legal, get it in writing from them. You don't want to creat a bigger issue than you already have.

I certainly recommend doing everything you can to resolve this issue with them but a lot is going to come down to what you signed.
If you signed a "Buyer guide" or "AS IS", it probably stated the you purchased the car in as is condition with no written or implied warranty.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
I did give them a Cashiers check Friday. I can check with my Credit Union in the morning.

If you gave it to them Friday afternoon, you can pretty much bet it hasn't cleared your CU yet. Get by the CU first thing in the morning and put a hold on the check, then go see the dealer. This is a key bargaining chip for you to use.

David, you need to be at the Credit Union FIRST THING in the morning, waiting for the doors to open. Speak with the branch manager. Tell him / her the whole story, get a HOLD put on that check.

I did some digging and found numerous complaints with the Better Business Bureau, concerning this dealer. Every complaint listed, had a really evasive response from the dealer. It sounds like a really sleazy outfit.

David, I have two suggestions for you: First, get a HOLD put on that check at the Credit Union and try to return the van for a refund. If the dealer refuses, you might want to get a lawyer involved.

Second, if you do get a refund and subsequently go shopping for a different vehicle, get it checked out by a competent maintenance shop before you pay one single dollar to the dealer. Pay the maintenance shop for a pre-buy inspection. I recently bought a used Ford Edge. My maintenance guy charged me $95.00 for a really thorough pre-buy inspection and he found a couple of thousand dollars worth of problems. I took his quote for repair of these to the dealer, they agreed to do all of the major items as part of the sale.

These small independent used car dealers are generally not the best places to find a used vehicle. A factory authorized new car dealer might be more honest, and I would also suggest that you look at CarMax. You are not as likely to get screwed by these choices.

David, are you in Kentucky?
If so, here's a web page that might be of interest:
https://ag.ky.gov/consumer-protection/used-cars

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
Big deal, this isn’t a “dealership”. It’s a small, unaffiliated shop.

Thus, leverage is greatly diminished. There may still be a way out, but it is nowhere near as likely if he bought it from a Toyota dealer.

EDIT: been reading some of their Google reviews (Midwest Auto Connection is the dealer), seems like this behavior is quite typical:

quote:

They get some interesting inventory but the salespeople could use some training. Also, be sure to check the vehicles thoroughly as I've noticed signs of "rebuilds" on some of their cars. Especially very noticeable bodywork and paint that isn't the greatest.

They are probably a lot of auction cars that need work and they may do the work on site, I'm not positive. But a lot of the work is clearly not "top notch".

I noticed on their site most of their cars come from western Pennsylvania.

Did you look under the vehicle? My Army buddy lives in Pittsburgh and he's told me how bad the salt on the roads are for the undercarriage. And you posted that most of their vehicles come from Western Penn. No telling where these vehicle come from they buy the at auctions for little or nothing.

Being a southern boy we don't have the salt problems. I've been at my buddy's shop here in Louisiana and see some vehicle on the rack that came from up north that were about to fall to pieces underneath. Good luck David.

I’m not absolutely sure I’d let the dealership’s hack “mechanic” work on the car. There’s not a lot of incentive for them to do a good job at this point, unfortunately. About all you’ve got is their good will. Used car lots typically don’t have much concern about good will, because they have none. Fix it yourself or take it to a real mechanic.

If you do let them work on it, get in writing that they’re doing any repairs at no cost to you for parts and labor. The last thing you want to do is give these crooks a chance to overcharge you for the repair, then put a mechanic’s lien on the vehicle and repo it.

If there’s a Kentucky attorney among the membership here, maybe he can intercede on your behalf concerning a refund of the sales price. Good luck, David.