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| Ethics, antics, and ballistics  |
Semi-autos and the way they normally function are actually a superb argument for us NOT needing any kind of restrictions on unmodified semi-autos, magazine capacity or even the number of firearms we can own or have available at any one time because the limiting factor is your trigger finger and physical fatigue, not to mention you can only really effectively use one at a time. Doesn't matter if you are carrying ten 30 round mags or even 10 Beta-C mags on your person or even having 10,000 rounds in loaded magazines in a hotel room, you simply can not continue to repeatedly pull the trigger for even a minute let alone minutes on end without taking breaks or being more deliberate, much slower, and judicious with your firing when you are firing a semi-auto firearm with your finger. So, in contrast to what the shooter was doing with the bump stocks and having numerous bump stock equipped rifles in the room to be able to just pick up and continue to spray a large and densely populated area with a mechanically enhanced high rate of fire rifle, the number of purely semi-auto firearms would have been irrelevant because of the physical limitations of using them. If you get tired pulling a trigger on the rifle you're holding, having 100 additional semi-auto rifles lined up close by is irrelevant because you won't be able to keep firing them over and over and rotating through them for any additional frequency and rate of fire, unlike using a full auto and mechanically modified rifles. Jerry is amazing, but he is able to do what he does due to years and years of training, muscle memory, and adrenaline, but only for a very short period of time. He is definitely fast but even he couldn't match the bump stock, even with the other guys slower reaction time. I'm sure Jerry is so focused and has so much experience with the timer that he can somewhat anticipate when the timer is going to beep too instead of waiting to actually hear it go off which is likely the explanation of his first low shot. I bet Jerry's trigger wasn't exactly "Mil-spec" either.  -Dtech __________________________ "I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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| Ethics, antics, and ballistics |
Would the shooting still have occurred with an unmodified semi-auto? Unfortunately yes. No one is saying that it wouldn't have because this evil person was intent on doing harm to innocent people with a gun, a bomb, a car, or whatever he could manage to do. But anyone with any experience or even just being intellectually honest about the shooting and the equipment used would also recognize that the casualties would have been a fraction of those of him using multiple bump stock equipped rifles to fire as fast as he did. 911Boss gave a good example back on page 11. I'd be careful about posting advice of what he or someone with the same intentions should have or could have done on a public forum though, or any forum for that matter. -Dtech __________________________ "I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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Now in Florida |
CNN shows animation to explain what a bump stock is...but shows rifle with no bump stock. They did include a suppressor and grenade launcher though. | |||
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| Member |
I'd agree with that point. Beating the drum of "no different than a deer rifle" will be shoved in our face when someone wants to expand a future AWB bill to include all semi autos. We should expect the left to push as hard as they can at every turn. Don't give up ground for free. | |||
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Member |
I'll say. Doesn't seem "knee-jerk" at all even. Year V | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Keystoner, if you want buck a staff member, I'm available. You need to let it go. | |||
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| Member |
I certainly wasn't bucking a staff member. Year V | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
LDD addressed this. In case it wasn't clear to you, LDD told you to cease. Pages later, you came back to LDD's remark so that you can interject more commentary. Just let it go. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
Once one starts agreeing with the concept that a thing slapped onto a gun makes it evil, it is flawed road to go down. It is ironic that these bump-fire stocks were created because of regulation... "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| Member |
And how. Just think how many more he could have killed had he fixed his bayonet first! === I would like to apologize to anyone I have *not* offended. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. | |||
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| Leave the gun. Take the cannoli. |
Do you have a link for this video? | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
The problems with Democrats and compromise is the idea that compromise is they take and we give. All other "Rights" are sacred to them. They are against walls. But, they use walls at their events for "security". They are against mandatory identification for voting. But, they require ID's for their events. They cite "security". The Democrats idea of compromise is akin to the mob's extortion racket. We'll only take $20,000 but we could be taking $50,000. | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddPTyoV-Irc | |||
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| Ethics, antics, and ballistics |
I think everyone here understands that the only evil part of any gun, knife, hammer, baseball bat, truck, etc. is the person using it. Regardless of what side of the bump stock argument you are on though, anyone refusing to admit the bump stocks statistically and significantly contributed to the end result of this shooting is being irrationally influenced by their no compromise point of view. How many 1 inch machine screws can you screw all the way in to a length of board with even easy to screw pre-threaded collars running the length of the board in a minute with a manual screw driver vs. a cordless drill? Using your argument in reverse, then why aren't we all just able to own RPGs and miniguns? It is because of the unfortunate nature and carelessness inherent to some folks and what they would do with them. We are fortunate as Americans to have the Constitution to protect the core of our rights and beliefs. As a society, just about everything in life governed by laws is a matter of balance, deterrence, guidelines, and compromise regardless of party affiliations, motivations, or criminal intent. I have not and will not support any regulation of anything other than full auto firearms and simulated full auto devices. There is no other line to cross, concession, or potential compromise to make and we have solid arguments for our positions on that as I mentioned in my other prior posts. As for your last statement, ATF clearly approved the bump fire stocks so there was nothing to legally argue one way or the other until now regardless of if you agreed with them or not. However, the other arguable irony in bump stocks having been created is that they are now a talking point and object of contention causing a self inflicted wound of sorts to gun owners by instigating a more vigorous conversation of further gun control because of the fact they were designed to get around the full auto regulation. -Dtech __________________________ "I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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A Grateful American |
5 thousand rounds per minute. Yeah, Jerry can sling a shitton of lead in a Dixie minute. And shoot you in the nuts to start, and make you dead all over. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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| Ethics, antics, and ballistics |
Jerry's lightning fast reflex nut shot was the kill shot. The other nine were just to autograph the target.  -Dtech __________________________ "I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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| Member |
The ATF has ruled against similar devices in the past, and, apparently, they never should have ruled in favor this one. Because dangerous precedents are set if actual legislation is passed to ban these (especially if confiscation is included). These devices are going away now, no matter what. Now it's just a matter of confiscation vs. grandfathering. I don't think anyone could have expected or anticipated someone taking a toy like the bump stock and turning it into that effective an accessory. But it's difficult to dispute how effective it was in this selfish coward's feeble hands. What a travesty...for the victims and for civil rights. | |||
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| I have not yet begun to procrastinate |
And therein lies the rub. The only way to stop "simulated full auto" is to ban semiauto rifles...which is exactly what scores of politcians want anyway. There is no other way around it since any semiauto rifle can be bump fired. Some are easier than others but they can all do it. -------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. | |||
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| Ethics, antics, and ballistics |
I literally had to laugh out loud at this response. No it's not. Please read my prior posts. They are not going to ban your finger or your belt loop. Bump away. Good grief! Mechanical...mechanical devices! It's almost like some of you are trying to give the opposition misinformation to argue against every semi-auto in order to save bump stocks. -Dtech __________________________ "I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
The only person here belping the opposition is you, Dtech. You and those like you. And there's even nothing remotely funny about it. | |||
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