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His Royal Hiney |
I agree especially about the crash around the burnt light bulb considering the catastrophic result. Wow. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
I don't think he's advocating for automation here. Just a chime and a lighted indication if the landing gear is still down after you reach a certain airspeed. Just like you get a chime in your car if you don't buckle your seatbelt after a certain mph. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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Dean of Law |
They are lucky they didn't tear tear off the gear due to exceeding gear down speed. | |||
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I believe in the principle of Due Process |
I don't know about the chime, but there are lights showing down and locked, in transit, etc. The chime might be problematic because in some regimes in flight you want the gear down. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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Member |
Highly unlikely, as the gear itself is one of the strongest components on the airplane. Gear speed limits are mostly for the doors, not the actual gear struts and wheels, at least on transport aircraft. Even if they did tear the doors off it shouldn't affect the planes ability to land safely unless it took out hydraulic lines or something. On the 737 which is what I fly, the max gear down speed is 320 knots vs a redline speed of 350, so it's pretty fast. I can't speak to the Airbus, but on the 737 we don't have the gear on any after takeoff or climb checklists. I guess Boeing figures if you're smart enough to be flying a 737 you probably shouldn't be forgetting something as basic as raising the gear. And if somehow you manage that feat there are more than enough visual, aural, and performance clues to remind you. Unless of course you're Indian, and a woman... Mongo only pawn in game of life... | |||
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Member |
I think they already have that. It would be that roaring noise from the drag. ;-) Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark. “If in winning a race, you lose the respect of your fellow competitors, then you have won nothing” - Paul Elvstrom "The Great Dane" 1928 - 2016 | |||
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Member |
As I mentioned in my post above, its almost impossible to overspeed the gear when its down and locked. Had they tried to raise it above 220 knots they might have damaged the gear doors. The gear itself would have been fine. They could take out some hydraulic lines with a door failure, which could lead to other issues with the brakes or flight controls (maybe) but there was no real risk to the landing gear itself as long as they left it down and didn't try to retract it above the max retract speed (220 knots). The aircraft was in no danger, it was just very limited in its capabilities due to the extra drag of having the gear down. Thats why they invented retractable gear in the first place. | |||
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blame canada |
Exactly. I think the gender aspect has NOTHING to do with this. I'd really be hesitant to fly on any foreign airline. Especially south koreans. Some of the worst pilots I've seen come from that airline. I've heard horror stories about the chinese airlines, but I've no first hand experience. Perhaps it is similar to the korean airlines (I'm not sure), I was told that they basically get chosen for the career and then sent to learn how to fly. Speak with any instructor or fly near any of these flight schools where they get sent to learn, and you'll experience it for yourself. My two closest calls in aviation were both korean flight students nearly killing me and my passengers due to their incompetence. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ www.rikrlandvs.com | |||
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Member |
It should be noted that it is WAY more common for pilots to forget to put the gear DOWN when landing than to forget to raise it on takeoff, so most of the warnings are focused on that scenario. I doubt you will see warnings developed for the gear left down because it is not an emergency nor does it place the aircraft in jeopardy. You simply won't be able to climb or accelerate normally with the gear down. Eventually you will realize that your fuel burn is about twice the normal rate, as this crew did. How they didn't figure it out sooner is a head scratcher, because it is really loud when you leave the gear down, but it isn't like the gear will fall off or the jet will fall out of the sky. At no time was the aircraft in danger because the gear was down. Landing with the gear up is much more dangerous and more likely to occur, thus the various warning systems designed to prevent it. EGPWS (bitching Betty) will tell you "too low gear" if you pull the power with the flaps extended with the gear up but it won't tell you to raise the gear ever. Just not something anybody ever thought would be an issue and not dangerous if you forget to raise it. | |||
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Member |
They had 3 green lights staring them in the face the entire flight. They managed to block that out. They would just as easily block out a chime (that would have to be silenced during take off until above 1000 feet anyway) that told them the gear was still down. Theres a lot going on in a modern jet aircraft in today's busy ATC environment, things get missed on occasion. The checklist should have covered the oversight but somehow they missed it. Good chance they would have missed another aural warning or chime as well. Maybe not. But this is a very rare scenario, never heard of somebody going on a 90 minute flight with the gear down and not knowing it. The noise alone would probably made hearing a chime (if there was one invented) difficult. | |||
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Member |
Hard to believe they had much flight time in that type if sound & sluggishness didn't speak out to them. | |||
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Member |
Well if they fly like they drive, I can see this happening. P229 | |||
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Corgis Rock |
This could also be an example of the "glass cockpit syndrome." This occurs when the technology gives too much information and the crew becomes confused. A variation happens when a crew fees the captain and won't speak up even when danger is imminent. http://articles.latimes.com/19...information-overload “ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull. | |||
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Lost |
I remember that. 1972 Eastern Air Lines Flight 401. | |||
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Comic Relief |
Aural caution: "DO THE NEEDFUL!!!" | |||
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half-genius, half-wit |
'NEW VERB WARNING NEW VERB WARNING NE.....' tac | |||
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half-genius, half-wit |
The first timer [as a visitor to Airbus Industrie, I hasten to add] that I sat in a all-lit-up brand-new 'glass cockpit' passenger plane, I felt just like a dog must feel watching TV. tac | |||
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