SIGforum
Second officer removed for alleged improper relationship with female colleague on scandal-hit submarine
October 07, 2017, 01:50 PM
ScoutmasterSecond officer removed for alleged improper relationship with female colleague on scandal-hit submarine
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:...To put women on a submarine and not think that it would create this very problem and not disrupt operations is beyond naive.
I agree with you. If this were only a standards/honor issue, let't put a marijuana and cocaine dispensary on board and tell people not to use it.
"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 October 07, 2017, 02:48 PM
46and2quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
It's not like there isn't fucking going on when there are no women on board.
You know this how?
If you meant to imply first hand experience, no, not even close.
I know this because gay people have existed significantly longer than Navy ships, and Don't Ask Don't Tell wouldn't have ever came to be if such things weren't true, and while I'm neither gay nor a Navy guy, I've been in the Army, worked in large companies, on large projects, some in servicing large government contracts, and people are always fucking, in high school, in college, at work, on vacation, on business trips, in military units, etc.
Basic human nature.
And to deny it is like trying to deny gravity exists.
October 07, 2017, 03:08 PM
Monkquote:
Originally posted by CEShooter:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Yeah, putting women on submarines is a fantastic idea.
What else do we have to take off the submarines because the leaders can't be trusted around them? Money, guns, other people's belongings, etc.
If the leader can't follow the rules then they can't follow the rules. I'm not saying it's easy but you can either control your impulses or you can't.
It's human nature. Put the ugliest woman imaginable in the middle of a bunch of guys, and they are ALL going to try to impress her, whether they're aware of it or not. It's just men are wired. Even if they're not having sex with her, her presence is having an impact on their performance, whether negative or positive. It's not a conscious decision like stealing money or munitions.
____________________________________________________________
Georgeair: "...looking around my house this morning, it's not easily defended for long by two people in the event of real anarchy. The entryways might be slick for the latecomers though...."
October 07, 2017, 03:16 PM
HayesGreenerIt's a terrible drug
CMSGT USAF (Retired)
Chief of Police (Retired)
October 07, 2017, 03:23 PM
bald1quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
To put women on a submarine and not think that it would create this very problem and not disrupt operations is beyond naive.
I agree with you Alan. And to those who have never served at sea, you really don't fully comprehend the isolation from everything other than your ship and shipmates. Mixing in females is nothing short of lighting an explosives' fuse period. Another example of political correctness and irrational gender equality gone amuck.
Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club!
USN (RET), COTEP #192
October 07, 2017, 03:29 PM
SigSentryquote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Men and women inside a coffin for months. Nothing could possibly happen. Nah.
October 07, 2017, 03:33 PM
Scoutmasterquote:
Originally posted by bald1:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
To put women on a submarine and not think that it would create this very problem and not disrupt operations is beyond naive.
I agree with you Alan. And to those who have never served at sea, you really don't fully comprehend the isolation from everything other than your ship and shipmates. Mixing in females is nothing short of lighting an explosives' fuse period. Another example of political correctness and irrational gender equality gone amuck.
Another bulls-eye.
"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 October 07, 2017, 04:00 PM
braillediverIt's no hypothetical study you're looking at the results.
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The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart.
October 07, 2017, 04:52 PM
signewt"It’s not a question of women on submarines or warships, it’s a question of standards"
Isn't that what 'port call' was all about?
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October 07, 2017, 05:01 PM
FenrisIf the urge to fuck were less strong, there would be many fewer humans running about, if any at all.
God Bless and Protect our Beloved President, Donald John Trump. October 07, 2017, 05:32 PM
Stramboquote:
Originally posted by Scoutmaster:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:...To put women on a submarine and not think that it would create this very problem and not disrupt operations is beyond naive.
I agree with you. If this were only a standards/honor issue, let't put a marijuana and cocaine dispensary on board and tell people not to use it.
Good analogy.
The question asked should be "What policies will make the most feared submarine force (Army, Navy, military etc.) the world has ever seen?"
“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik
Be harder to kill:
https://preparefit.ck.page October 07, 2017, 06:21 PM
marksman41quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
It's not like there isn't fucking going on when there are no women on board.
You know this how?
Probability and statistics.
Numerous posts in various threads on this board by people well-versed in probability and statistics point out how flawed the information from either can be. Been on ships for months at a time and there was shit going on from O to E, Male to Female, and I have no doubt same gender. All it takes is eyes to know what is going on.
You have no doubt the same gender, huh, but nothing other than supposition. I too have been on Navy vessels for months at a time - submarines specifically. With as small a crew as a boat has it's extraordinarily difficult to keep that sort of activity hidden. Using my eyes and ears ('cause you have to use ears too, you know, otherwise you're missing out on information) if there was any homosexual activity going on those involved kept it extremely quiet. Of the boats I was on, the only sailor around which there was any open question regarding homosexuality was transferred off rather quickly. The tender and other co-ed ships were a different story. I know there was a lot of male-female relationships on those vessels but male-male was either non-existent or not talked about, I can't confirm which.
October 07, 2017, 06:30 PM
marksman41quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
It's not like there isn't fucking going on when there are no women on board.
You know this how?
If you meant to imply first hand experience, no, not even close.
No, that's not what I was asking. I apologize for the implication. I was asking if you have any hard evidence of homosexuality onboard Navy vessels. I know this because gay people have existed significantly longer than Navy ships, and Don't Ask Don't Tell wouldn't have ever came to be if such things weren't true, and while I'm neither gay nor a Navy guy, I've been in the Army, worked in large companies, on large projects, some in servicing large government contracts, and people are always fucking, in high school, in college, at work, on vacation, on business trips, in military units, etc.
Again, male-female fucking is one thing. You stated that "it's not like there isn't fucking going on when there are no women aboard." My question to you is are you saying or implying that homosexuality is the norm in the Navy? Evidence of such?
October 07, 2017, 07:00 PM
EchtermetzgerThe survival instant is extremely powerful.
The procreation instinct, be it for recreation or procreation, can be more powerful in certain cases.
People will often risk their careers, families, religious vows, even jeopardize their lives, just to, well....you get the idea.
You put people in mixed gender company and it will be inevitable. It isn't that every single person will pair up and make the Beast with Two Backs, but every tenth person in the crowd will eventually find that other person who has poor personal boundaries/insecurity/daddy issues, etc.
A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed.
October 07, 2017, 09:19 PM
Chris42quote:
Originally posted by oldRoger:
I think everyone should be able to agree that at the very least it is an unnecessary complication in a warship.
It is also an unnecessary complication in combat.
No I am not talking about "gender" I am talking about males and females serving together. The military is not or should not be a social experiment.
This 100%
Someone else suggested the idea of how do you build the most threatening, offensive, effective team? Separate the men and women on to different ships. Have those ships compete.
That would work.
Mixed sexes in the military - big, BIG mistake.
October 07, 2017, 09:28 PM
RAMIUSquote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
It's not like there isn't fucking going on when there are no women on board.
You know this how?
If you meant to imply first hand experience, no, not even close.
I know this because gay people have existed significantly longer than Navy ships, and Don't Ask Don't Tell wouldn't have ever came to be if such things weren't true, and while I'm neither gay nor a Navy guy, I've been in the Army, worked in large companies, on large projects, some in servicing large government contracts, and people are always fucking, in high school, in college, at work, on vacation, on business trips, in military units, etc.
Basic human nature.
And to deny it is like trying to deny gravity exists.
It's not gay if you're underway.
October 07, 2017, 09:44 PM
marksman41quote:
Originally posted by RAMIUS:
It's not gay if you're underway.
Asshole.
October 07, 2017, 09:48 PM
Bytesquote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
It's not like there isn't fucking going on when there are no women on board.
You know this how?
If you meant to imply first hand experience, no, not even close.
I know this because gay people have existed significantly longer than Navy ships, and Don't Ask Don't Tell wouldn't have ever came to be if such things weren't true, and while I'm neither gay nor a Navy guy, I've been in the Army, worked in large companies, on large projects, some in servicing large government contracts, and people are always fucking, in high school, in college, at work, on vacation, on business trips, in military units, etc.
Basic human nature.
And to deny it is like trying to deny gravity exists.
Bullshit... Gays are a very small percentage of society, not matter what the LGBT group (or you) think. Heterosexuals are the VAST majority of our population. Putting men and women together on a ship for a prolonged period of time is going to cause problems. Period. There may have been a small amount of butt riding going on with male only crews but it pales compared to putting women on the same boat. Do you really think this is a non issue? Refer to Balze posts in this thread. I'm pretty sure he's up to speed with the whole living on a ship scenario.
October 07, 2017, 09:50 PM
Balzé Halzéquote:
Originally posted by RAMIUS:
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
It's not like there isn't fucking going on when there are no women on board.
You know this how?
If you meant to imply first hand experience, no, not even close.
I know this because gay people have existed significantly longer than Navy ships, and Don't Ask Don't Tell wouldn't have ever came to be if such things weren't true, and while I'm neither gay nor a Navy guy, I've been in the Army, worked in large companies, on large projects, some in servicing large government contracts, and people are always fucking, in high school, in college, at work, on vacation, on business trips, in military units, etc.
Basic human nature.
And to deny it is like trying to deny gravity exists.
It's not gay if you're underway.
It's only queer if you're at the pier.
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
October 07, 2017, 09:55 PM
heavydquote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
quote:
Originally posted by RAMIUS:
It's not gay if you're underway.
It's only queer if you're at the pier.
