Black bear kills teen runner during trail race near Anchorage
quote:
...but it really is a statistical freak event. He wasn't stupid for running through 'bear country' (and practically 100% of Alaska is 'bear country'). He was just unlucky.
You can't expect people to not run,cycle,hike,fish,etc because bears live there.
I suppose the problem will sort itself out then, as we continue to see here.
Infrequent or not, animals tend to attack fleeing prey. If you throw in hiking near bear cubs with running and cycling, AK will be proven right.
As for me, I'll remain a non-participant.
I wonder if some of you ever tell car accident victims that they were stupid for driving on the highway, or maybe a lightning strike victim that they were dumb for standing exactly where they were?
-------------------- I like Sigs and HK's, and maybe Glocks
June 21, 2017, 02:12 PM
AKSuperDually
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Originally posted by DonDraper:
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Originally posted by newtoSig765:
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Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
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You can't expect people to not run,cycle,hike,fish,etc because bears live there.
I suppose the problem will sort itself out then, as we continue to see here.
Infrequent or not, animals tend to attack fleeing prey. If you throw in hiking near bear cubs with running and cycling, AK will be proven right.
As for me, I'll remain a non-participant.
I wonder if some of you ever tell car accident victims that they were stupid for driving on the highway, or maybe a lightning strike victim that they were dumb for standing exactly where they were?
How many of you tell motorcycle riders they were stupid for riding without a helmet?
Same thing. It's their right, doesn't make it smart.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June 21, 2017, 02:19 PM
AKSuperDually
quote:
This boy's death is sad, but it really is a statistical freak event. He wasn't stupid for running through 'bear country' (and practically 100% of Alaska is 'bear country'). He was just unlucky.
Bear country would be where bears are currently frequenting.
It isn't rocket science to figure out when and where the bears are going to be, or not going to be. Different times drive different food sources, and different times drive bears likelihood of having negative reactions with people in their food country. I certainly wouldn't expect city folk in Anchorage to know this...though they should, and many do. Race officials should have. I would think that a organized race event would have some responsibility to guarantee the safety of the participants. If ANYONE is to blame, it would be them.
No, most people in Alaska are not scared of bears...because we don't march into their food source and aggravate them. Bears are predictable. Moose are generally not. Most intelligent Alaskans are more scared of moose than bears.
But please....keep telling us how you know better, having been stationed on a military base for 16 months here (~400 miles away from the incident)....the obvious expert.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June 21, 2017, 06:49 PM
DonDraper
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
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Originally posted by DonDraper:
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Originally posted by newtoSig765:
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
quote:
You can't expect people to not run,cycle,hike,fish,etc because bears live there.
I suppose the problem will sort itself out then, as we continue to see here.
Infrequent or not, animals tend to attack fleeing prey. If you throw in hiking near bear cubs with running and cycling, AK will be proven right.
As for me, I'll remain a non-participant.
I wonder if some of you ever tell car accident victims that they were stupid for driving on the highway, or maybe a lightning strike victim that they were dumb for standing exactly where they were?
How many of you tell motorcycle riders they were stupid for riding without a helmet?
Same thing. It's their right, doesn't make it smart.
No, not the same thing. Not even close. Anyone that dies/gets injured from head trauma not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle - I have zero sympathy for. I'll be the first to call them a dumbass.
You seem really smart about things, but anyone that doesn't see this death by bear as a complete freak or unlucky accident isn't thinking very well. I'm not sure of any better way to say that - I don't want to break any rules here. But after 29 years of running that race, you act like they should have walked outside and said "oh holy shit it's Sunday, everyone knows these predictable black bears come down and eat on the trails today!!" - it's utterly fucking stupid. Stop kidding yourself.
-------------------- I like Sigs and HK's, and maybe Glocks
June 21, 2017, 06:56 PM
12GA
I'm surprised at the callousness I'm seeing in this thread. A teenager - really just a boy- lost his life by being mauled to death by a bear and there are folks here calling him stupid for running a race with his family. He was just a boy for Gods sake. Were you people born a 30 year old?
__________________ Member NRA Member NYSRPA
June 21, 2017, 07:08 PM
Fenris
Dogs maul runners all the time. Probably more frequently than bears do. Perhaps children and young adults should not run and play anywhere dogs might be found.
Yep. That's what we need. More young people sitting on the couch playing X-Box all day.
God Bless and Protect our Beloved President, Donald John Trump.
June 21, 2017, 07:54 PM
Graniteguy
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Originally posted by calugo: I'm in New Hampshire visiting friends and asked if it's safe to go jogging since moose and black bear occasionally wander through their yard. I was told sure go ahead and run black bears won't bother you. So I run two miles, get back to the house, access the Internet and find out someone was mauled /killed by a black bear in Alaska. Needless to say I'm not running around here anymore
The size difference between a NH Black and an Alaska Black is radical - to the tune of 2-3x. Black bears in NH run about 200-250lbs. Alaskan Blacks can get up to 600lbs+.
June 21, 2017, 08:50 PM
Hound Dog
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
quote:
This boy's death is sad, but it really is a statistical freak event. He wasn't stupid for running through 'bear country' (and practically 100% of Alaska is 'bear country'). He was just unlucky.
Bear country would be where bears are currently frequenting.
It isn't rocket science to figure out when and where the bears are going to be, or not going to be. Different times drive different food sources, and different times drive bears likelihood of having negative reactions with people in their food country. I certainly wouldn't expect city folk in Anchorage to know this...though they should, and many do. Race officials should have. I would think that a organized race event would have some responsibility to guarantee the safety of the participants. If ANYONE is to blame, it would be them.
No, most people in Alaska are not scared of bears...because we don't march into their food source and aggravate them. Bears are predictable. Moose are generally not. Most intelligent Alaskans are more scared of moose than bears.
But please....keep telling us how you know better, having been stationed on a military base for 16 months here (~400 miles away from the incident)....the obvious expert.
I get it, you live there. But are we really quibbling over the definition of 'bear country?' Really? All of Alaska is 'bear country,' IMO. In that, bears live there, and can be expected to appear, often in unexpected and inconvenient times and places (unlike, say, places like downtown Miami or San Antonio). I don't know what methods you use to "figure out when and where the bears are going to be." Since I'm not an expert, perhaps you can tell us how you can predict the appearance of a freaking black bear anywhere in Alaska at any time.
What did I say, specifically, that was so wrong that you had to come in here and talk down to me?
I know a bit about bears. I never said I was an expert, but I staked my life on my knowledge of Alaskan wildlife, while spending many hours alone in the wilderness, often completely unarmed, miles away from any help, with no communication devices. When I first got there, I asked every local contractor I could find for bear advice, knowing I would spend a good deal of time in their territory. They all said the same thing. Don't surprise one, like stumble upon a Griz with a kill. Don't go anywhere near any bear that has cubs (like a former base commander did - he got treed by a mother black bear guarding her cubs, and he was not in the woods - he was literally surrounded by dorm buildings on 3 sides when it happened). Don't run away from one. It's really common sense.
I don't see how the race organizers could have *predicted* this bear would show up and kill a contestant. It is a freak accident, IMO. Millions of people live around bears; VERY FEW of them are ever bothered, much less attacked or killed by one.
Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher
June 21, 2017, 09:09 PM
tatortodd
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Originally posted by Hound Dog:
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Originally posted by tatortodd: One thing that surprises me every bear thread is the people claiming that black bear rarely kill people compared to brown bear. Here are the stats for North America:
2010's: brown bear 11, black bear 9
2000's: brown bear 12, black bear 13
1990's: brown bear 15, black bear 10, polar bear 2
I lived in Alaska 16 months, stationed at remote Clear Air Station, in the mid 1990s. I spent a LOT of time out in the woods (our base was about 1300 acres, but only about 50-100 acres of that had human infrastructure (roads, buildings, etc)). I got out every chance I got, either shooting at a local range, grouse hunting, fishing, or jogging. No cell phones, no portable radio or walkie-talkie. I honestly didn't give bears much of a thought. Looking at the numbers above, those are per *decade*. Multiply the millions of people living our vacationing in bear country over 10 years, makes for VERY favorable odds.
Also, one must consider that black bears are MUCH more numerous than browns (otherwise called Grizzlies). For example, black bears are common here in Colorado (I saw one about 50 yards from me on the USAF Academy golf course once), but Grizzlies are either altogether absent or extremely rare here. So, the fact that the brown bear killings still outnumber black bear killings means, to my limited statistical analysis, at least, that blacks still aren't that dangerous. They are still bears, of course, but in Alaska, nobody I knew of was really afraid of black bears (unless they had cubs with them).
I always took either my .44 or 12ga with me hunting or fishing (sometimes both), but I never jogged armed. It wasn't allowed (military bases are picky with when/where you are allowed to be armed). I had 5- and 7-mile jogging paths through the woods. I would be miles away from any other human, with nothing to call for help but my voice. I even jogged this route at midnight once (broad daylight in the summer months). I never gave bears a second thought.
It's not bravery; it's just the way things were.
This boy's death is sad, but it really is a statistical freak event. He wasn't stupid for running through 'bear country' (and practically 100% of Alaska is 'bear country'). He was just unlucky.
To be fair, you were in a low bear density part of central Alaska w/o a salmon run so the bear were smaller too. Most of the bear attacks in Alaska are taking place on the coast or along rivers with salmon runs. The water and fish attract both bears and people.
Bear fatalities are a statistically low probability event, but bear maulings with the victim surviving are nearly an order of magnitude more common. Additionally, there are places in North America such as Bird Creek Trail where trail closures due to bears are annual events, and negative bear encounters (using spray or gun in self-defense, being treed, person being mauled, or pet companion being mauled) are a more common event.
It's also interesting that McNeil River can have the highest brown bear density in the world, but have zero bear maulings in its 44 year history. IMO, the difference between a place like Bird Creek and McNeil River is limited access (you enter a drawing for the priviledge of being one of 185 people per summer), and all visitors follow safe bear country practices to the T under the watch eye of their escort/ranger.
Nearly every bear mauling story I read in Alaska started with basically the same line "I was doing the same thing I've done countless times - alone, not making any noise, and not armed with spray/gun." Not practicing safe bear country practices seems fine until it isn't.
quote:
Originally posted by 12GA: I'm surprised at the callousness I'm seeing in this thread. A teenager - really just a boy- lost his life by being mauled to death by a bear and there are folks here calling him stupid for running a race with his family. He was just a boy for Gods sake. Were you people born a 30 year old?
The runners death is a tragedy, but he wasn't running the race with his family. He was entered in the same race as his family, but they were not running together. Do you see the difference?
Bear Country Safety 101 is that you hike, run, mountain bike, fish, etc. in a group that makes noise and is more likely to scare off a bear.
Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity
DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
June 22, 2017, 08:41 AM
njauto
In rural Northern NJ a black bear chased down a hiker and killed him a couple of years ago. He was in his early 20s and with a goup. They found his body a short time later and I believe found and shot the bear.
Lucky I went home early..6:30 PM, and didn't check my camera back in the field where the bear was probably eating blackberries. Also I was only carrying a 9 shot 22 LR. He stayed around all night down in the woods at the other camera site.
