The fuel is one thing, but I think the 40 hours of maintenance per flight hour might be a bit limiting. Of course, you could make the run from south America in pretty good time. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
...might be nice to get a type rating on a 104, but where can you actually use it?...

At the bar, when you make a bet that the jet jock with the fastest type rated AC gets a round from all the slower puddle jumpers!

I dont believe they put SR-71 type ratings on FAA issued documents. So this should be a winning bet!

.

With the F-104’s side stick control, I wonder if the pilots were all right-handed. De jure or de facto.

Where do you get "side stick" from?

The F-104 was a typical pole between the legs.

But...but...it's a single engine. I guess the second engine is under your ass.

On the link all the planes have tip tanks, but still it does not strike me as "long range."

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:
^^^^^^^^
https://www.trade-a-plane.com/...4270&s-type=aircraft

Wow that some kind of plane!! The imagery and thoughts that listing gives a low hour prop pilot, the fixins for at least one good nightmare.

That side stick control looks to be for flaps.

Look at the size of that engine outlet compared to the whole rear cross section of the plane. Yea I guess it would be fast.

Looks like a rocket with a touch of control surface thrown in for good measure.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Where do you get "side stick" from?

The F-104 was a typical pole between the legs.

I’ve had that misconception for a long time. Thanks for enlightening me.

I was lucky enough to have worked on many airchines over the years, the oldest was the P-47, and the last thing I "put my hands on" was the F-35.

Most of anything I worked on, and flew on, are in museums, or the boneyard, and a couple ended up in a smoking hole.

Time has a way of making you realize how much fun you never realized you were having, until you look back.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
With the F-104’s side stick control, I wonder if the pilots were all right-handed. De jure or de facto.

Is this what you're talking about? It's the throttle.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
With the F-104’s side stick control, I wonder if the pilots were all right-handed. De jure or de facto.

Is this what you're talking about? It's the throttle.

Thanks for offering me the excuse, but no, I was just flat wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Hangtime:
...

Looks like a rocket with a touch of control surface thrown in for good measure.

There's a reason they called it "the missile with a man in it".

I kind of...no...I totally lust after it for that very reason.

Engineers: We are going to take an engine and stick some control surfaces on it. Oh and a gun.

-20 years later-

Engineers: We are going to take a gun and stick some control surfaces on it. Oh and some engines.

-today-

Otto: Yes please. Have I paid enough taxes yet for the training? Pretty please? OK who do I have to kill? Either one, I'm good.

Fun fact, it was designed by Kelly Johnson and the Skunk Works. It was also the basis for the U2.

Let's take an F-104 and put some ridiculous wing on it.

Roger that, sir.

quote:

Originally posted by Otto Pilot:

Engineers: We are going to take an engine and stick some control surfaces on it. Oh and a gun...

Nope! No gun. Only armament was a pair of Sidewinder missiles, which mounted where the wingtip fuel tanks are in the pics. So, mission-ready, very short range, the original "Shoot 'n scoot."

I think during Viet Nam, they hung a Gatling gun under the nose, but not with any great success since it tended to vibrate and wander when it was fired. Or when the plane hit Mach Whatever.

If I were to have the ridiculous amount of money needed to do this, and were going to spend it on a "century series" fighter, I'd hold out for an F-100, or an F-110 (more commonly known as the F-4).

For those interested in reading some of the numbers regarding the aircraft and operating it, a summary:

http://airplanedriver.net/study/f104.htm

F-104? The Lockheed Lawn Dart? No thanks.

The Luftwaffe lost over 200 Starfighters during it's brief operational history. 151 Luftwaffe pilots were killed. On one day in June of 1962, the Luftwaffe lost four F104s.

The krauts had a lot of good nick names for it. The Witwenmacher or widowmaker. Erdnagel or ground nail. And my favorite, a play on words with Starfighter, they called it the Sargfighter, Sarg being the German word for coffin.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Echtermetzger,

I don't remember why the Luftwaffe couldn't keep them flying, but the high number of crashes and fatalities was due to two factors:

1. Most of the crashes were due to flameouts on takeoff.

2. Most of the fatalities were due to the early ejection system used on the F-104: it shot the pilot out the bottom of the cockpit! The thinking was that this method would avoid contacting the tail of the aircraft in a high-speed ejection, the reality was that it shot the pilot straight into the ground when the engine flamed out on takeoff.

Yep. The Germans were crashing them with regularity while I was there back in the 70's.

Reminds me of when someone asks me if I would ever hope in a top fuel dragster.

Uh, nope.

Same reason why I'll pass on the chance in an F-104.

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:

...I think during Viet Nam, they hung a Gatling gun under the nose...

Thanks for the reminder. Here's a real short history, I'd love to read more about air to ground.

On April 19, 1965, the F-104C-equipped 476th Tactical Fighter Squadron arrived at Da Nang Air Base. The plane, a fighter-bomber variant, had a refueling probe and hard points to mount external fuel tanks, bombs or up to four AIM-9 Sidewinder infrared-guided air-to-air missiles. Its primary mission was escorting Lockheed EC-130 motherships carrying drones and the “Big Eye” early warning (radar-equipped) planes that provided surveillance support to U.S. aircraft over North Vietnam. The Starfighters also conducted strike and close-air-support missions in North and South Vietnam, as well as Operation Iron Hand missions to destroy North Vietnamese missile sites.

The F-104C’s deployment to Indochina ended on July 19, 1967, after more than 5,000 sorties. During that period, 14 F-104Cs were lost in Southeast Asia—six to groundfire, four to noncombat causes, three to Soviet SA-2 surface-to-air missiles and one to a Chinese J-6 fighter while suffering a navigation systems failure near China’s Hainan Island.

http://www.historynet.com/arse...104c-starfighter.htm