Great to be concerned about your tires, but the one thing we rarely think of is the tires of that guy next to or in-front of you.

Keep your distance, because when the other guy looses traction you have no control over where he is going.

quote:

Ask and you shall receive.

OK for that, I've even been to their rally school. But a truck with a plow on the front end is not a relevant test. I've plowed way too much to discuss the basics but it loads the front end (many trucks are on the bump stops with a plow). Weight distribution matters in winter (that's why adding rear end weight in pickups is meaningful in winter). And this particular test has received so many negative comments about consistency that they ran several others with different vehicles. What I think we learn from those test is that in locked wheel stops 4wd shifts some brake bias to the rear (normally under biased) and thus reduces stopping distances. This video and the other tests they did does nothing to convince me the average person will do better with 4wd than 2wd in full stop ABS braking except in a straight line. And the real world difference is minimal. WHAT it does show is that you can beat the ABS if you are competent. But of course the whole point of the ABS is to be able to steer while braking. SO going down a hill with a curve that you need to make there really isn't a difference that matters.

Been using my Ram 2500 in snow now since 2013 in Co. People think that with 4 wheel drive you can go faster(nonsense). Good tires help but as stated unless you have studs most tires become useless on ice. Throwing weight in the back of the truck helps with traction. Carry a shovel, tow straps,sand and chains that fit your tires. AT's are ok on snow but really meant for dirt off roading. Most important watch your speed and keep your distance.

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People think that with 4 wheel drive you can go faster(nonsense). Good tires help but as stated unless you have studs most tires become useless on ice.

Just for sake of discussion.

I'm in my 13,500 pound four wheel drive with this little symbol on the side of my tires:



The other guy is in his Honda Civic with half worn all seasons.

He's going 5 MPH in slick conditions because he's sliding all over the place. I'm going 20 and am 100% solid on snow and ice, trying to get away from him before he hits me or somebody else. As I pass he shakes his hands yelling "Four wheel drive isn't four wheel stop!"

Which one of us is dangerous? Which one of us shouldn't be out on the roads?

It is true. There are several four wheel drives that end up in the ditch when the weather turns. There are just as many front wheel drives, rear wheel drives, and sports cars like Camaros and Mustangs off the road. All of this is generally a result of two things: Lack of experience, and lack of proper equipment. If you're putzing around in all seasons, don't get pissed when the "dangerous" guy with the properly rated winter tires comes "flying" around you. Well not really flying you see, because he's still driving at half the speed he would usually drive. It just seems really fast because you're going 5MPH in a 40 due to your lack of traction.

As others have said:
Slow and steady inputs.
Also:

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When the back end starts to kick out on just get completely off the gas and 9 times out of 10 it'll straighten itself right out if you get it as soon as it starts to go.

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Throwing weight in the back of the truck helps with traction.

The only time I use 4wd (HI) is to get out of parking lots and parking spots that have become slick.
Once on a highway or a freeway, its back to 2wd.


I live in MN and learned to drive here.
Over the years, I've driven everything from a Ford Galaxie 500, Crown Vic, Chrysler K Car, Dodge Intrepid, Renault Alliance (shudder), Ford Ranger (2WD), Dodge Dakota (4WD), GMC full size truck, etc. (Front wheel driver, Rear WD, 4 WD and AWD)

My favorite vehicle to drive in ice and snow was a 1989 Plymouth Horizon. All the weight was on the front wheels and it was light enough to go over any snowdrifts, if you made a run at it. Perhaps the most appreciated quality of that car was a heater that could melt your shoelaces. With its 1.2 liter engine, it managed 50 mpg on the freeway.

I still have a 2001 Dodge Intrepid with snow tires that I drive when it gets very cold because it has a great heater. It is rock solid in slick conditions.
Tires make more of a difference that you can imagine.

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Originally posted by BigSwede:
Make sure to stop at the bottom of hills before you ascend, safety first

I’m confused, how or why does this make it safer?

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
Make sure to stop at the bottom of hills before you ascend, safety first

This is just about the least experienced suggestion for Winter Driving I have ever seen on the Net. It's no wonder that Atlanta turns into a disaster zone whenever there is a 1/2 inch of snow on the ground.

Do not stop at the bottom of a hill if it's legal to keep moving, as in no stop light or sign. Because you will want that inertia to help you climb that hill. Where you want to stop or slow down a bunch is at the top of a hill, because if you lose traction going down your only option may be to put it in neutral and COAST down the hill. BTW, when coasting is the only option do a few tests brake applications at the top of the hill while you are moving slow to determine just how hard you can "ride the brakes" going downhill and the key aspect here is you do NOT want to break traction EVER. On snow or ice the Static coefficient of friction is always higher than the Dynamic coefficient of friction. Close to 32 degrees the difference is tiny but it does exist. So make darned sure that you don't ever break traction when going down hill, because if you do you have no brakes and no steering. Final tip, any time your try and turn and find the car going straight pop the transmission into neutral and coast, most of the time if you aren't way over speed for the conditions you'll find the car hooking up like you flipped the traction switch. I also recommend going to neutral anytime you have to apply the brakes or come to a stop.

PS: Just put my winter tires on my Fiesta ST, Bridgestone Blizzaks on all 4 corners. Because having driven with these tires in snowy/icing conditions they are the absolute bomb when driving conditions suck. While not quite as good as chains they are darned close and well worth the money spent when the roads are a mess.

quote:

Originally posted by mjlennon:

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
Make sure to stop at the bottom of hills before you ascend, safety first

I’m confused, how or why does this make it safer?

Found this photo of BigSwede on the internet.

Me...

Ha. When we do get the rare iced roads, it is hilarious to to see people stopped at the bottom of a hill or stopped halfway up and stuck as I zoom right by them. Born and raised in MI

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When we do get the rare iced roads, it is hilarious to to see people stopped at the bottom of a hill or stopped halfway up and stuck as I zoom right by them.

I'm out in the sticks, and if we get people stopped on the hills it either blocks us from getting in or out or causes a larger accident that blocks us even longer.

I know the experts say my 4 wheel drive is more dangerous than their two wheel drive in that weather, but I'll usually stop halfway up those hills, attach a tow strap, and drag those stuck behind me the rest of the way up. Seems I get pretty good traction, even on ice. Shocking what the proper tires will do.

The 'terminal ballistics' of a vehicle on absolutely ice slick road conditions can be terrifying. Despite all preparations & forewarning for severe conditions, I once encountered on the east side of famed Santiam Pass, a stretch so slick it was impossible to stand on the roadway. Granted the road should have been closed before I got there, even with chains on a J2000 4x4 with Alaskan camper on back, was terrifying for a couple miles down off the summit.

That was the same storm front that frosted the entire eastern half of Oregon. One fuel tanker truck outside John Day, IIRC, was negotiating a similar down-hill on different highway. Hit an elk which wedged under his front axle and disrupted the limited steering control he had. The rig ended on its side dumping part of the fuel into a creek. Being diesel it required considerable clean up, rather than igniting.
Crews couldn't even get there for many days before the temperature allowed more normal travel.

Having the proper tires and maintaining a safe speed for the conditions are key in my book.

When I was living in Colorado I lived in a small community at the base of Pikes Peak outside of Colorado Springs. I lived on a road with a rather steep hill which could become a problem in heavy snowfall or icey conditions. I was driving a Blazer at the time and had those big, fat tires which were popular at the time. It had snowed pretty heavy during the day and I knew I might have a problem getting up the hill. When I got within sight of the hill I could see a car slowly making its way up the hill and I figured if it could make it so could I. It was far enough ahead so I figured I could gun it and not catch up to it. Well, as luck would have it the car got stuck right in the middle of the road and at the crest of the hill. I was three fourths of the way up the hill and I had no choice but to stop. Those fat, worthless tires turned into ski's on the snow and I started moving backwards with no way of stopping myself short of throwing out a boat anchor.

Fortunately, I had one of those big tires on a rack on the back of the Blazer and I hit a telephone pole dead center of the spare tire. It absorbed most of the shock of impact and I only suffered minor damage to the tailgate.

I learned a couple things that day and one of them is that fat tires, while they may look impressive, are not good for snow and ice.

Heed what others have posted before me and have the proper tires, maintain a safe speed, and know your limitations!

Thanks for all the tips and advice.

I'm now a little confused about chains. Do I need chains? It sounds like I don't - they will close the roads if conditions are such that it's not safe for 4WD/AWD w/out chains. So basically, I'm hearing that roads will remain open for 2WD with chains and 4WD/AWD w/out chains. They will close the roads if it's not safe for 4WD/AWD w/out chains.

That being said - should I get chains? If so, what type? And do I get 4? Sounds like AWD in particular I should install 4, not just two. But it's confusing and not there is complete agreement. I'm going to read my owner's manual tonight and see if it says anything.

Side topic: while walking around in the snow, should I use something like this:

https://www.rei.com/product/76...kers-traction-system

https://www.rei.com/product/15...ers-ultra-ice-cleats

https://www.rei.com/product/87...ikes-traction-system

https://www.rei.com/product/80...grip-traction-system

Most chains or cable chains are hard on passenger vehicles and most of what is out there are "just to get you home" and not durable. If you're going to buy chains because you need them, buy real tire chains with cam type tighteners, you'll need bungy cords as well to keep up slack; make certain you have clearance in your wheel wells for travel and turning.

If you have to run chains on asphalted roadways, you should probably grab a hotel room.

I had chains in my truck for 20 years and only used them twice. Put chains on going over Tiger Mountain and once going over Snoqualmie Pass.

Kept two tubes of sand in the back of the pickup for weight and use if stuck each winter.

If chains are required you should not be driving unless absolutely necessary.
Typically simply waiting a day is all you need to wait for it to clear up.

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So basically, I'm hearing that roads will remain open for 2WD with chains and 4WD/AWD w/out chains. They will close the roads if it's not safe for 4WD/AWD w/out chains.

Not necessarily so.
Often mountain passes will remain open with chains required.

As I recall the mountain passes were either open, closed, or chains required, with no distinction for 4WD vs 2WD.

Definitely recommend a mat or piece of cardboard to kneel/lay on when putting chains on.
Tube of sand and shovel are definitely advised.

Thanks - no idea what that (chains, cam tightner) means but I'll research them

I'm planning to stay on roads - highways and local roads. Not planning to leave the pavement. So, I'm hoping that, even with snow, the conditions will be okay for AWD (and the K02 tires) w/o chains. Staying at home or at the hotel is fine - I'm worried about the barren stretches of road in between.

I'm sure I'll be fine and probably worrying about sliding off the road too much. I'm planning to just drive (slower) than the traffic. I'm just not sure what to do when they require chains (for 2WD). At what point should I just turn around and go back (thinking to myself).

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Tube of sand and shovel are definitely advised.

I'll go buy some sand bags. I think I have a small shovel somewhere.

I was reading this somewhere and I think they close the roads for R3. So, perhaps, if I am allowed to drive, road conditions are such that I don't need chains - they close the roads if 4WD/AWD requires chains. That being said, seems like I would feel safer putting chains in all 4 corners if 2WD requires chains.....

Requirement One (R1): Chains, traction devices or snow tires are required on the drive axle of all vehicles except four wheel/ all wheel drive vehicles.

Requirement Two (R2): Chains or traction devices are required on all vehicles except four wheel/ all wheel drive vehicles with snow-tread tires on all four wheels. (NOTE: Four wheel/all wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain control areas.)

Requirement Three (R3): Chains or traction devices are required on all vehicles, no exceptions

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:...
Also, try to travel at a high rate of speed so your tires have less contact with the pavement.
Ideally, your SUV becomes like a hovercraft....

But then you have to deal with eels...

Just quoting the monkey here b/c his post made me laugh this morning and nobody else seems to have gotten the joke.

(F-ing dirty Hungarians...)



-Rob

In general, you air down tires when you want to "float" on top of the terrain; sand (like a beach), rock crawling, etc. For snow you want the tires to bite in and (unless it is very deep, so deep that you probably shouldn't try it anyway) reach hard ground underneath.