quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Settlements have zero to do with admission of innocence or guilt.

A $787.5 Million dollar settlement is an admissions of 1. Fault and 2. They were about to get clobbered for a larger sum.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:

Fox could have saved a ton of money if they just had found you in time, right?

There's a whole lot more to this settlement than what you're so casually implying, and I know you must know that. For starters it stops the at least month long circus that the likes of Brian Stelter and others were almost literally salivating over. Stelter was going to have a show/podcast just covering this trial. Then there is Fox sparing their personalities and most notably Murdoch from having to sit and testify to all manner of things going on at FNC. And probably most importantly--and what the short sighted dickheads at the other news stations are ignoring in their excitement and outright exuberance at seeing FNC get owned--if Fox were to lose, it sets a pretty significant precedence for the fate of press free speech and opens up the possibility to all news organization for all manner of lawsuits and liabilities.

So please, stow the simplistic argument that Fox would've definitely taken this to trial otherwise. Many people were praying that Fox would ultimately settle this lawsuit, and it wasn't necessarily due to them not believing there was actual malfeasance on the part of these Dominion voting machines.

This wasn't a chump change settlement and you can't think otherwise. Fox committed falsehoods and knowingly so, as the court ruled. You can't sit in front of a jury and say you are an ethical organization with internal communications acknowledging the lies and then allowing them to be repeated and perpetuated.

There was actual malice and that's why they settled. They could have been popped for the entire $1.6B and remember, Fox is facing nearly identical suits from other plaintiffs and once the sworn testimony in the Dominion case is locked in, Fox's options in those cases are really limited.

You'd like to think that Fox was a virgin and wearing white panties but their undies were soiled of their own making.

Fox doesn't give a shit what Brian Stelter thinks or anyone else in the media. If you haven't been paying attention, the media has been covering this because it's news but also because Fox has the overall highest ratings and your competitors always are trying to take you down.

As somebody who settles court cases for a living, nobody coughs up 50% of the demand if they think they’re going to win the case. In Fox’s case, the outcome was anything but certain, but what was were weeks of really bad publicity, falling ratings, lost ad revenue and the Smartmatic case waiting in the wings.

Rupert and the boys sat down and sussed out how much it was going to cost to put this and Smartmatic to bed, gamed out revenue streams to come, and came up with a number. That’s how the sausage gets made. It’s not about winning it’s about mitigation and certainty.

I suspect Dominion settled because, had the case moved ahead, they would have had to explain how proprietary technology in their machines worked.

I’ve always thought these machines were capable of much more than we’re led to believe. Things Dominion wouldn’t want made public.

In short, a “cheat mode” may not have been used in 2020. But who’s to say the option isn’t there. I’d wager if it were possible, foreign elections would happily use it. With the C.I.A.’s blessing, of course.

@Miilliron

Bingo.

I do corporate defense work and this is exactly what happened and how it's done every day.

The biggest thing my clients talk about when you get into meaningful numbers and settlements is the business of their business. Yes they care about the merits and the optics but it's the business of the business that drives almost all of the settlement decisions.

It's not who sits on this side of the v. or who is on the other side but instead it's what is the best business decision that needs to be made.

You never pay 50% of a large demand if you think you're going to prevail and the confidence level of counsel for Fox was pretty low if they paid this much.

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:
As somebody who settles court cases for a living, nobody coughs up 50% of the demand if they think they’re going to win the case. In Fox’s case, the outcome was anything but certain, but what was were weeks of really bad publicity, falling ratings, lost ad revenue and the Smartmatic case waiting in the wings.

Rupert and the boys sat down and sussed out how much it was going to cost to put this and Smartmatic to bed, gamed out revenue streams to come, and came up with a number. That’s how the sausage gets made. It’s not about winning it’s about mitigation and certainty.

Milliron, glad to see you after a few years.

The cat thread is still ticking over smoothly.

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:
I suspect Dominion settled because, had the case moved ahead, they would have had to explain how proprietary technology in their machines worked.

I’ve always thought these machines were capable of much more than we’re led to believe. Things Dominion wouldn’t want made public.

In short, a “cheat mode” may not have been used in 2020. But who’s to say the option isn’t there. I’d wager if it were possible, foreign elections would happily use it. With the C.I.A.’s blessing, of course.

Dominion settled because they were offered a sum that was more that ten times the value of their company.

There was no guarantee that if Dominion won the suit they would receive the entire $1.6B.

sigalert, why do you think these machines are capable of more than Dominion claims? Do you happen to be an expert in this area? Perhaps you can enlighten us?

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
@Ackks if the information was out there,
Fox would not have just paid hundreds of millions.

I know lots of people that know 5 or 6 ways it could have been done.

I have not met one person that can prove it was done.

If you can, I am listening.

That information is still worth millions.

There is a ton of circumstantial evidence. But I suppose Dominion could have pointed to the possibility of illegal tampering which they are not responsible for.

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:
I suspect Dominion settled because, had the case moved ahead, they would have had to explain how proprietary technology in their machines worked.

I’ve always thought these machines were capable of much more than we’re led to believe. Things Dominion wouldn’t want made public.

In short, a “cheat mode” may not have been used in 2020. But who’s to say the option isn’t there. I’d wager if it were possible, foreign elections would happily use it. With the C.I.A.’s blessing, of course.

Surprised I didn't see the Grassy Knoll mentioned in there somewhere.

Dominion agreed to settle because they actually had a very tough case to win. FNC settled because they don't want to have their dirty laundry aired for a month straight.

And not a chump change settlement? Ha! Murdoch could've easily paid out twice that much without breaking a sweat.

And ethics and reliability as journalists? Are you shitting me? Is that what some of you think was on trial? This was a straight up business decision. The truth is, CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the stinking lot should be thanking their lucky stars Fox settled this case rather than risk losing it.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:
sigalert, why do you think these machines are capable of more than Dominion claims? Do you happen to be an expert in this area? Perhaps you can enlighten us?

Depends. What is Dominion claiming?

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:
I suspect Dominion settled because, had the case moved ahead, they would have had to explain how proprietary technology in their machines worked.

I’ve always thought these machines were capable of much more than we’re led to believe. Things Dominion wouldn’t want made public.

In short, a “cheat mode” may not have been used in 2020. But who’s to say the option isn’t there. I’d wager if it were possible, foreign elections would happily use it. With the C.I.A.’s blessing, of course.

Surprised I didn't see the Grassy Knoll mentioned in there somewhere.

It doesn’t need to be a conspiracy. It could be simple incompetence. Maybe Dominion left half on the table because they didn’t want anyone to find potential exploits in their design. Getting a few CEOs under oath would have lent clarification. Instead Fox wrote a check. But hey, they’re only our elections. Im sure only “Top Men” are on the case.

As for the “grassy knoll”. They still won’t release the full archive.

I must be missing something here. I see a lot of arguing about the Dominion machines. Isn't this case about Fox's right to report news and opinions, regardless of their own opinions, and whether that can be construed as libel?

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
I must be missing something here. I see a lot of arguing about the Dominion machines. Isn't this case about Fox's right to report news and opinions, regardless of their own opinions, and whether that can be construed as libel?

No one, not even Dominion or the judge, raised the idea that Fox is prohibited from reporting, commenting or having guests on shows that discussed the 2020 election. That would have been perfectly permissible and no one would have gone to court.

The problem for Fox was that they were pushing the hacked Dominion machines story through shows, guests and interviews with people who were supposedly in the know, Sydney Powell or Rudy G. That's OK if it were true but it's not and never was. While publicly pushing the hacked or massaged Dominion machine story, internal communications from Fox shows that they knew with abundance that it was a lie and wrong but they still pushed on with the story.

From there we have Dominion's defamation suit.

Since public figures or organizations are out in the open, so to speak, like a celebrity, Dominion needed to show actual malice from Fox to prevail and that's where Fox got into trouble.

You can't claim there was no actual malice towards Dominion when your own internal documents confirm that you know you're pushing a lie. It was the malice that did them in, IMO.

Fox pushed back a bit by saying it's reporting and dynamic therefore while the news isn't clean, it was newsworthy and that gives them a pass. Except it doesn't when you're pushing known lies.

Fox had no out except to defeat the actual malice element with the truth aka the machines were hacked but they had no experts or other evidence demonstrating that to be true.

All they could do was settle in the face ofan adverse decision. Damages would have been another issue but on the liability question, they were fucked and knew it.

^^^ you say "lie" we all know better.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
^^^ you say "lie" we all know better.

Who is "we" and what do they know better?

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
That's OK if it were true but it's not and never was. While publicly pushing the hacked or massaged Dominion machine story, internal communications from Fox shows that they knew with abundance that it was a lie and wrong but they still pushed on with the story.
<snip>
You can't claim there was no actual malice towards Dominion when your own internal documents confirm that you know you're pushing a lie. It was the malice that did them in, IMO.

*You're* flat out lying. You're lying by trying to state your opinions as if they were facts. Fox 'knew' or Fox 'thought'? Dude, you yourself don't even know. You may have an opinion, but you don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
^^^ you say "lie" we all know better.

Who is "we" and what do they know better?

Some people know, but I doubt it's anyone here. We just think we know.

quote:

Originally posted by alptraum:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
^^^ you say "lie" we all know better.

Who is "we" and what do they know better?

He knows when he is being fed something rotten, and the 2020 election was definitely rotten.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
That's OK if it were true but it's not and never was. While publicly pushing the hacked or massaged Dominion machine story, internal communications from Fox shows that they knew with abundance that it was a lie and wrong but they still pushed on with the story.
<snip>
You can't claim there was no actual malice towards Dominion when your own internal documents confirm that you know you're pushing a lie. It was the malice that did them in, IMO.

*You're* flat out lying. You're lying by trying to state your opinions as if they were facts. Fox 'knew' or Fox 'thought'? Dude, you yourself don't even know. You may have an opinion, but you don't know.

Honestly, have you followed any of the case?

There's nothing I can say to you because you already know the inside info that is different than what's in the public sphere.

The elements of a successful defamation case would have been made out by Dominion. Then Fox gets to push back with any defenses and if you have a defense that has merit, you don't volunteer to pay close to $800M to settle a case unless you know you're holding nothing but low cards. They had nothing but low cards. All they needed was one Dominion that was flipped or could be flipped by shenanigans and they would have prevailed. Just one.

No one has ever produced one. I'm sure it's possible but possible and actual nefarious conduct are different. The level of coordination and the number of players would all require planning and nationwide cordination to know how many votes to flip in any given district. There's no there there. Trump's people still say it was rigged but they've had years to prove it. Fox has had plenty of time to come with a viable defense. They had nothing.