Festina Lente
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| | | Posts: 8295 | Location: in the red zone of the blue state, CT | Registered: October 15, 2008 | 
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| China has 71 subs! No wonder the US has been doing extensive undersea mapping around the Philippines and the general area.
-c1steve
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| | | Posts: 4133 | Location: West coast | Registered: March 31, 2012 |
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Official Space Nerd
| quote: Originally posted by bigdeal:
It doesn't appear Indonesia's sub force is much of a deterrent to anyone. Just sayin'.
Subs are inherently more dangerous than surface ships. The US lost two in the 60s - USS Thresher and USS Scorpion. That didn't mean that our force 'wasn't much of a deterrent.' Heck, we had TWO destroyers collide with commercial vessels recently. Oh, and we set fire to an (amphibious) aircraft carrier in San Diege, as it was in drydock. That doesn't mean our surface force is inept, either. Accidents happen. Men died. It is the way of the sea; always has been, always will be.
Fear God and Dread Nought
Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher
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| | | Posts: 21953 | Location: Hobbiton, The Shire, Middle Earth | Registered: September 27, 2004 |
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Just because something is legal to do doesn't mean it is the smart thing to do.
| I know nothing about subs. I just wonder about the possibility it was hijacked and the oil slick was just a cover.
Integrity is doing the right thing, even when nobody is looking.
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| | | Posts: 4269 | Location: Metamora MI | Registered: October 31, 2003 |
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| Thresher and Scorpion were tough, and Thresher had the support ship just above as it was going through sea trials down to test depth which was 1,000 ft. Pipe let go, reactor scrammed, and ice formed in the ballast tank vents keeping them from working on the emergency blow. Tail first past test depth as rear flooded then imploded from the sail back. SUBSAFE program came out of this to address quality of welds, build and make safety top priority. This legacy let us build better and safer subs. No one is sure what happened with the Scorpion and Ballard discovered the Scorpion while “undercover” searching for Titanic. Best guess with Scorpion is they had a hot run torpedo or the Russians sank it. Nothing conclusive as just had long distance sonar. I don’t know what a 212 class test depth is...but figure it is deeper than 800 meters where the sub is. Prayers for the crew.
“Forigive your enemy, but remember the bastard’s name.”
-Scottish proverb |
| | | Posts: 1999 | Location: South Florida | Registered: December 24, 2007 |
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| Update: Indonesian authorities say rescue teams have detected an object with "high magnetic force" floating at a depth of 50 to 100 metres in seas north of Bali where a submarine carrying 53 crew disappeared. Key points: The missing submarine can safely operate in waters up to 500 metres deep Authorities said oxygen on the sub would run out at 3:00am on Saturday The Australian government offered assistance in the rescue operations Yudo Margono, the navy's chief of staff, said authorities were hoping the unidentified object was the KRI Nanggala-402, which lost all contact with authorities on Wednesday during a torpedo drill. Mr Margono said a navy ship with underwater detection facilities was on its way to the area to investigate.
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Life is short. It’s shorter with the wrong gun…
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
| quote: Originally posted by CQB60: Yes, search parties have a found an oil slick in the area. Fear for its crew quote: Originally posted by jhe888:
Diesel-electric, I assume?
Nuclear subs use oil too.
~Alan
Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country
Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan
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| | | Posts: 31128 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012 |
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SIGforum's Berlin
Correspondent
| Well that doesn't look good. quote: Date 24.04.2021
Indonesia: Debris from missing submarine recovered — military
Authorities said they found objects that had been inside, indicating the submarine with 53 crew members has sunk. The deadline to locate the vessel before its oxygen runs out passed early Saturday.
The Indonesian military submarine that went missing off Bali with 53 people on board is believed to have sunk, officials said on Saturday.
"With authentic evidence believed to be from the KRI Nanggala, we have raised the status from 'submiss' to 'subsunk,'" Navy chief Yudo Margono said, adding that the retrieved items could not have come from another vessel.
The revelations, made at a news conference, came hours after the vessel with 53 crew members on board was estimated to have run out of oxygen reserves.
What did officials say?
- They have recovered debris indicating that some sort of pressure had sunk the vessel
- The objects found include a bottle of lubricant to grease the periscope and a device that protects a torpedo
- Scanners detected the submarine to be some 850 meters underwater, well beyond its survivable limits
- Condition of the 53 crew members aboard could not be determined
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https://www.dw.com/en/indonesi...-military/a-57321050 |
| | | Posts: 2464 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005 |
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half-genius,
half-wit
| quote: Originally posted by BansheeOne: Well that doesn't look good. quote: Date 24.04.2021
Indonesia: Debris from missing submarine recovered — military
Authorities said they found objects that had been inside, indicating the submarine with 53 crew members has sunk. The deadline to locate the vessel before its oxygen runs out passed early Saturday.
The Indonesian military submarine that went missing off Bali with 53 people on board is believed to have sunk, officials said on Saturday.
"With authentic evidence believed to be from the KRI Nanggala, we have raised the status from 'submiss' to 'subsunk,'" Navy chief Yudo Margono said, adding that the retrieved items could not have come from another vessel.
The revelations, made at a news conference, came hours after the vessel with 53 crew members on board was estimated to have run out of oxygen reserves.
What did officials say?
- They have recovered debris indicating that some sort of pressure had sunk the vessel
- The objects found include a bottle of lubricant to grease the periscope and a device that protects a torpedo
- Scanners detected the submarine to be some 850 meters underwater, well beyond its survivable limits
- Condition of the 53 crew members aboard could not be determined
[...]
https://www.dw.com/en/indonesi...-military/a-57321050
Correction from BBC - 'Sonar scan reveals submarine lying on the seabed at 2800 feet. This is well beyond its survivable limit'. RIP Sailors |
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Fighting the good fight
| quote: Originally posted by tacfoley: quote: Originally posted by BansheeOne:
- Scanners detected the submarine to be some 850 meters underwater, well beyond its survivable limits
Correction from BBC - 'Sonar scan reveals submarine lying on the seabed at 2800 feet. This is well beyond its survivable limit'.
Not so much a correction... 2800 feet is 853 meters. So same-same. |
| | | Posts: 33269 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008 |
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crazy heart
| Damn, I was hoping this story would have a better ending, but that sounds pretty unlikely. |
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| The submarine was found by a ROV, at a depth of 850 meters (930 yards) and had broken into three parts, Indonesian Navy Chief of Staff Yudo Margono reported to media. Rest easy lads
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Life is short. It’s shorter with the wrong gun…
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Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
| What a terrible way to go. RIP, gentlemen. |
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| RIP sub sailors  ---------------------------
Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
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| | | Posts: 8940 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004 |
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Step by step walk the thousand mile road
| quote: Originally posted by mod29:
Damn, I was hoping this story would have a better ending, but that sounds pretty unlikely.
Death due to an implosion is a far, far better end than those 23 poor devils had on Kursk. Fair winds and following seas crew of KRI Nanggala-402. For those Islamic members of her crew, Inna Lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'un. For the rest, God bless, forgive, embrace, and protect you.
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government."
Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
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| | | Posts: 32256 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006 |
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| If ever there was an opportunity where diplomatic soft-power could be leveraged to not only keep-out an adversary but also closely track a maritime choke point, this was it. Instead, lack of big thinking at the highest levels of government in the nat'l security sphere fails again. China sub rescue ‘a worry for the West’ quote: The Chinese navy has begun an unprecedented salvage operation to help recover for free the Indonesian submarine Nanggala — a soft power win for Beijing that also offers an opportunity to map one of the region’s most important straits linking the Indian Ocean and South China Sea, analysts say.
Indonesia has accepted the PLA Navy’s offer to send three vessels, including its most advanced hydrographic survey ship the Tansuo 2, to help lift the 44-year-old submarine, which sank in waters north of Bali during torpedo drills near the Lombok Strait with 53 crew members on board last month.
An Indonesian navy spokesman said the defence ministry had received offers from Australia, the US, Japan, Russia and China to help recover the 1395 tonne naval vessel — in three pieces on the seabed at a depth of 838m — but had accepted Beijing’s offer “because their ships were already close to Indonesia … and it’s completely free”.
The spokesman confirmed that all three Chinese vessels, and 48 specialist People’s Liberation Army deep-sea divers, had begun the salvage operation after the Tansuo arrived in port late on Wednesday, but the Indonesian cable-laying vessel, Timas 1201 — which will help lift the wreck — was still on route.
Two Indonesian navy vessels were also at the site, according to the spokesman, who added: “We need to monitor them so they don’t carelessly take data”.
The Nanggala is Indonesia’s first submarine accident, and the government is under pressure to retrieve the bodies of its lost submariners and determine the cause of the tragedy. Still, its decision to accept China’s offer has raised eyebrows given regional concerns over Beijing’s maritime aggression, and the potential for the PLA navy to lay surveillance sensors in one of the region’s most important shipping straits.
Beijing has made no secret of the potential benefits of the salvage mission, with one submarine expert telling the state-run Global Times that the operation would help further China’s national security objectives. The mission would allow China to “study the maritime military geography of the area where the submarine was wrecked, as well as expanding the international co-operation and influence of our navy in submarine rescue and salvage”, the expert added.
The Lombok Strait is favoured by nuclear-powered submarines because it is deeper and less busy than the Malacca Strait, and because vessels are not required to surface and show their flag while transiting through it. The strait is also heavily used by Australian commercial shipping traffic.
An Australian defence ministry spokesman said HMAS Ballarat — the first foreign vessel to join the search last month — had left the area and Australia had “not been asked to contribute further capabilities to the salvage”.
The Australian understands the US did offer assistance but did not offer to pay for the salvage, which naval experts have estimated could cost up to $200m given the weight of the vessel and the depth to which it has sunk.
Regional security analyst Malcolm Cook told The Australian it was the first time China — and not traditional maritime assistance nations such as the US, Australia and Japan — “would be the provider of external help for a southeast Asian country in a situation like this”.
“If you were to script a movie about how to enhance Chinese soft power diplomacy in Indonesia, I’m not sure you could get a better plot,” Dr Cook said. “The Lombok Strait is the most important strait for submarine traffic, which is the most sensitive of military traffic and hard to track.
“If they can map the area they will have a much better idea of the sea floor and currents in the Lombok Strait which would be of benefit to Chinese submarines. If they are also able to leave sensors in the strait they would be able to track who goes through, which would be very detrimental to those who use it.”
Singapore-based maritime security analyst Collin Koh said the PLA Navy was clearly eager to project a softer image in a region where it has seized and militarised a number of disputed South China Sea islands and regularly breached sovereign maritime boundaries, though likely also had “ulterior motives”.
Dr Koh said the PLA’s deployment of its most sophisticated oceanographic survey vessel rang alarm bells given its ability to perform “all sorts of functions including the placement of sensors and other things that can be left unattended for long periods of time and can transmit data”.
“I would think that would be a huge concern for everybody. Whatever China spends on this, the benefits will probably far outweigh the costs.”
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| | | Posts: 15144 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000 |
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Get my pies
outta the oven!
| Great…now the Chicoms will leave sensors that can tell when our boomers pass through there. Hell, what’s stopping them from planting mines? How goddamn stupid can we be?
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| | | Posts: 34990 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: November 12, 2007 |
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