At that point, someone will not only have to have a BA/BS to get a decent job, but a masters also (which I'm sure the colleges would love.)

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

A BA/BS will be the equivalent of a HS diploma.

It's almost to that point now.

What could possibly go wrong?

* * * REVIVAL OF AN OLD THREAD * * *

Since the last previous post, submission of SAT or ACT scores became more or less optional due to the covid hysteria.

My son did submit his in ~2021/2022 and my daughter earlier this year for her college admission applications.

Some of the discussion in this thread lament the softening / dumbing down of the education standards in our country.

In the natural progression of this downward spiral, the University of Michigan has recently announced that it will “hide the first semester grades from freshman’s official transcripts in an effort to curb the mental health crises.”

I do not have a FB account but this video in this FB post did play for me on my iPhone -

https://www.facebook.com/watch...NjQ3ODcyXC8ifQ%3D%3D

Reported here and elsewhere as well -

https://www.dailywire.com/news...irst-Semester+Grades

SMH

^^^^ From The Daily Wire link above:

quote:

The University of Michigan’s College of Literature, Science, and the Arts will eliminate letter grades from first-semester transcripts for incoming freshmen under a new pilot program to help new freshmen acclimate to college.
Instead of traditional letter grades, students will receive a “Pass” (P) or “No Credit” (NC) during their first semester. The university says the change is intended to reduce stress tied to early grades and improve student mental health.
“Beginning in fall 2027, the College will designate all LSA first-year students’ first-semester grades as pass (P) or no credit (NC) on their transcripts,” the website explains. “While LSA students will still receive grades and instructor feedback in every course as they always have, final grades will not be recorded on their external transcripts and will not be reflected in their GPAs. LSA students’ official transcripts will state that all grades in the first semester are automatically designated as P/NC.”

The College of Literature, Science, and the Arts had nearly 20,000 undergraduate students enrolled last year, making it the largest of the university’s schools and colleges.

One goal, according to the program, is to encourage students to try new things and take classes across a wide variety of subjects without worrying that their grades will hold them back if they find those subjects a struggle. Another is to ensure that students can build confidence in their academic abilities as they first acclimate to campus culture and the demands of college-level coursework.

“Helping all students establish early momentum has been recognized as the most important element in U-M’s campus-wide Student Success Initiative. We believe that covering grades will help students start strong and curb the mental health crisis unfolding among college-aged individuals,” the website reads.

The only students eligible for this pilot program will be incoming freshmen who start at the College of Literature, Science, and the Arts in the 2027 fall semester, and the “grade covering” will apply only to their first semester grades.

Although they will not appear on individual transcripts, some people will still have access to the students’ actual letter grades and official GPA. The financial aid office will be able to access official grades to determine whether students are meeting required standards for scholarships and grants, and the athletic department will also be able to access grades to determine athletic eligibility.

Well, at least it’s reassuring to know that it’s not happening university wide but only in one college. I bet it has the largest safe space on campus, also.

Since this thread was resurrected, it’s worth pointing out that College Board did not implement the Adversity Score.

Also, many universities have gone back to require tests scores to be submitted in the last year or two because too many unqualified students were slipping in.

The Great Test Score Comeback: Many Colleges Are Reinstating Standardized Testing

Excerpt:

While some institutions never wavered in their requirement for standardized testing, notably University of Florida, a slew of colleges and universities have rejoined the test-required ranks in the past two years:

University of Texas at Austin (UT Austin)
Harvard University
Stanford University
California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
Brown University
Yale University
Dartmouth College
Purdue University
Georgetown University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
University of Georgia, Georgia State University, and Georgia Institute of Technology (Georgia Tech)
Johns Hopkins University (announced 8/20/24)
Carnegie Mellon University (announced 8/29/24)
University of Miami (announced 1/17/25)
Penn State (announced 2/14/25)
Ohio State University (announced 3/22/2025)
Auburn University (announced 8/6/2025)
Princeton University (announced 10/9/2025)
University of Alabama System (announced 12/18/2025)
Louisiana State University (LSU) (announced 2/27/2026)
Columbia University (announced 6/12/2026)
Vanderbilt University (announced 7/23/2026)

As a datapoint of one, my daughter submitted test scores to UF, FSU, and USC (University of Southern California) for early admission and was admitted to all three. Out of 17 students in her class that applied to FSU, 7 were admitted. We don’t know how many applied to UF, but she was 1 of the 2 that were admitted.

She applied early decision without scores to NYU’s College of Arts and Sciences (<5% acceptance rate overall) and was admitted. She also applied regular decision to Vanderbilt without scores and was denied. Early decision is easier than regular decision, but you can only apply for early decision to one school. Had she applied ED to Vanderbilt, I think she would have been admitted. NYU was her top choice which is why she applied ED there.

I guess my daughter was ahead of the curve as she knocked U of M off her list because the only way she would have gone there was if she didn’t get into any other school on her list. My son got into FSU with much worse stats than my daughter, so we figured she was a shoe in.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

Thanks for posting this information, Trapper.

It's good to see that Universities and Colleges are restoring standardized test results for purposes of admissions evaluation criteria.

With all these underqualified people coming in, these "elite" schools will start to lose their prestige.

Very true. Beyond that, when everyone has a "free" college degree courtesy of the progressives, that will also mean nothing. A BA/BS will be the equivalent of a HS diploma.[/QUOTE]A lot of them already are, compared to what I had to learn in high school (Class of 1955).

flashguy[/QUOTE]

Ditto: Class of 1959; Roswell NM Senior High

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
The Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations

There is nothing "soft" about this phenomenon. It is equally as racist as any exclusionary restriction, perhaps more so!

quote:

will start to lose their prestige.

too late!

The Adversity score has been gone since 2019.

Been replaced by the Landscape Score.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...rsity-score-n1046976

Glad my son is past all this shit.

^^^^
How do they rate those who review the applications?

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
The Adversity score has been gone since 2019.

Been replaced by the Landscape Score,
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/u...rsity-score-n1046976

Glad my son is past all this shit.

Landscape had been around since 2016 and couldn’t possibly have replaced an idea, Adversity Score, from 2019 that was never implemented.

Landscape was discontinued in September of 2025:

An Update on Landscape:

“COLLEGE BOARD COMMUNICATIONS
September 2, 2025
Since 2016, Landscape has provided consistent information about high schools and neighborhoods to help colleges understand more about where students live and learn. It was intentionally developed without the use or consideration of data on race or ethnicity.

As federal and state policy continues to evolve around how institutions use demographic and geographic information in admissions, we are making a change to ensure our work continues to effectively serve students and institutions.

Landscape will be discontinued.

We will continue to provide colleges and universities with data on SAT and AP performance, and we remain committed to supporting educational opportunity and meeting the needs of institutions and students alike.”

It maybe hard to believe, but that these tools and ideas are going away in universities is a WIN for students. I have three college age kids and have been watching this first hand. Imagine my shock when looking at colleges with my kids and reading about Learning Living Centers within the university housing system that segregated Blacks, Latinos, international students, LGBTQ+, etc. Also imagine reading all of the Florida university’s diversity stammers promising special services and extra help for everyone except my kids. That’s inclusive, right? I take that back. Florida Agriculture and Manufacturing University didn’t have diversity statement addressed to students. It’s an HBC and 91% Black. They also didn’t have any statements saying that any non-Black groups would be getting special treatment or extra help either.

This has changed and is changing. For example, UF has eliminated the Black dorm:

UF pauses non-academic Living Learning Communities in campus housing

Excerpt:

“UF indefinitely paused all activities in six non-academic Living Learning Communities Feb. 17, just days after the Trump administration’s Office for Civil Rights banned the consideration of race in any decisions made by academic institutions nationwide.

Living Learning Communities, or LLCs, were previously described as “interest-based communities of students that live together within residence halls,” but the language on UF Housing’s website has changed to “academic-based.”

Four of the six paused communities were centered around underrepresented populations, including Black, first-generation, international and LGBTQ+ students. The remainder catered to students interested in the arts and out-of-state students.”

Celebrate the winning folks!

Reading the list of colleges who have ‘rejoined the test-required ranks’ makes me wonder if they will just dumb-down the standardized tests.

The universities cannot possibly dumb down the tests as the tests are run by independent third party companies. All the universities can do is lower their individual standards.

I’ll use Vanderbilt as an example since my daughter applied there and we talked to one of their admissions advisors specifically about whether or not she should submit her test scores.

Half of the kids who submitted scores scored from 1500 to 1570 on the SAT. That means one quarter score 1580-1600 and one quarter scored below 1500. So my daughter’s goal was above 1500. She didn’t get it before the admissions deadlines for NYU and Vanderbilt. The first score she earned was more than enough for FSU, UF, and University of Southern California, so she applied early to all three.

There were no more opportunities to take the SAT again before NYU’s early decision deadline and by that point we knew she was at least admitted to FSU. Early application and early decision are two different things. A lot of universities have non-binding early application which is just an application deadline before the deadline for regular decision. The university announces those decisions much earlier than the regular decision day; FSU was Dec. 15th vs Feb. 15th for example. Early decision is the same except it’s binding and you are only supposed to apply to one university for early decision. Schools like early decision because they are accepting kids that are most likely going to go to that school which makes the school’s yield rate look good. Yield rate is the number of student that enroll divided by the number of students accepted. FSU’s yield rate is 32% meaning they had to accept nearly 3x as many students as they had spaces available. Vanderbilt’s yield rate is 63%. The difference is somewhat of an indication of how many applicants for which that university was the first choice.

That’s where she was at in December, didn’t have a score in the 50% range for NYU or Vanderbilt, a really strong application otherwise, and faced with the option of applying test optional. NYU is her dream school since the 7th grade, so she knows that’s where she’s going to apply early decision. Called and spoke to an admissions advisor at Vanderbilt. Really nice guy and helpful. He said they were really test optional in that they had pile of applications with test scores and a pile without and they tried to pull accept the same percentage from each pile. He said if she submitted her scores she’d be compared to all the other applicants that submitted scores. I took that to mean all else being equal her score would hurt her chances. Not submitting her score would put her in the pile where all else being equal, she’d have the same shot as anyone else.

She applied test optional to NYU and Vanderbilt. She got into NYU, but not Vanderbilt. She got into all the schools she submitted scores to as well.

She got into NYU without a test score in the upper 75%, but within the lowest 25%. Does that mean she isn’t qualified?

On a personal level, I don’t believe so. The SAT, ACT, CLT are supposed to be indications of potential for success taking college level classes. She graduated high school with over 60 college credits with an 3.95 college GPA and an AA degree and school in Florida would have taken her as a transfer student into her junior year of college. That’s proof of ability to succeed in college right there.

On a general level, I think test optional policies certainly have the potential to let unprepared students in and requiring scores will level the playing field again.